2009 Goal : Tag 500

[Wyvern]

My goal this year was to raise and tag 500 monarchs. I collected approximately 700 eggs/caterpillars this month. I lost about 100 eggs due to being infertile or just failing to hatch. I've lost only a couple dozen caterpillars to black/green death. Very few have died because of parasitic flies, cannibalism, or problems with chrysalis'. At my last count, I had about 550 live cats/chrysalis, but with natural attrition rates I know I will still be cutting it close to actually making my 500 goal. Overall, the number of deaths (not counting eggs) has been VERY low this year. Egg failures also have been on the low side in terms of failure to hatch, but the number of infertile eggs seemed higher than last year.

This week my first wave of cats began emerging from their chrysalis's.

Tagged 75 as of today.

Only 425 more to go.

[Mona Miller]

I was at the park today and the Monarchs are laying big time, also lots of tiny caterpillar, some 5th instars, too. But, I am also seeing the European Paperwasp doing its patrol, snag, and chop thing.

[dandjtaylor]

"Laying Big Time"...I hear ya' Mona. Last night, a warn, but otherwise in great shape, female hit the yard at about 4pm. I followed her around gathering eggs at which point she would hit the same plants again and again. By the time she went "roosting" somewhere for the night, I had collected 71 eggs! The most ever from a single female in my yard was 32 last summer. Lo and behold, where did she roost?...on my screen door! I expect her to make her rounds again today. Wow, that puts my possible total for the season at over 750 at my current yield percentage of about 90-93%.

So far, tagged 180 with about 250 tags left.

Looks like I will still need to get extra milkweed from the fields to feed everybody. She is cutting it close though. I will probably need to hurry these guys along by bringing them in at night.

Dwayne
Salem, MA
Waystation #2638

[Wyvern]

The first wave is winding down and the second wave should be starting up shortly.

Tagged a total of 146 as of today.

Only 354 more to go to reach my goal.

[dandjtaylor]

Do you get them all? I find on days of more than a dozen ecloses, they get very "restless" and as soon as the eclosing box door is opened, some of them cannot be stopped. Still, I have way more 'flies than tags, but I would like to get as many as I can before the cold starts hampering some of the late comers.

Over 200 tagged now with about 230 tags left.

D

[applestar]

WOW!
What are your rearing setups? How do you feed them all, let alone clean up after them?

[Wyvern]

I use 24 oz containers that have poly fabric lined lids. The lids allow for air flow without sucking away all of the humidity that cats need (like an open air cage would). No misting is needed.

The containers are sold as insect containers with the lids already having the poly fabric melded. You can also get lids with aluminum mesh too (for buggies that can chew through fabric such as crickets). I had originally purchased a bunch of the containers for rearing fruit flies and black widows. I tried the containers with the fruit flies and while they work, they are a pain for controlling the flies when you take the lid off LOL. I found I much prefer using vials for fruit flies. They are great for the black widows though. The other year I decided to try them with the monarchs and it turned out much better than expected... my death rates totally went down when compared to raising in open air cages.

I get my containers from Superior Enterprise. I get the 24 oz with poly fabric lids. A box of 240 containers is $68, but remember they can be bleached, washed, and reused over and over.

https://superiorenterprise.com/store/in ... &Itemid=53


Rearing:

I actually start my babies out in 4 oz condiment cups. When they hit 3rd instar size I move them to the large containers in groups of 12. I have found through experiementation that a large container can house a maximum of (12) 3rd instar cats, (8) 4th instar cats, or (4) 5th instar cats. After a few days the 3rd instar cats should have progressed to 4th instar and then can be broken down into the smaller groupings. 5th instars I have to sometimes juggle things. Occasionally one cat doesn't keep up in size with the others and can cause damage to chrysalis' if the others pupate a day or so before the last does, therefore I occasionally will move lone cats out into other containers. The containers can be safely stacked 3 high. If you need to stack 4 or 5 high, it's best to have a box or plastic bin to put them in.

I line the bottom of the containers with a piece of paper towel. I cut up several pieces beforehand. After putting the piece of paper towel in, I tear up a couple of milkweed leaves and add the caterpillars to the containers. In the evening I check on them and add more milkweed if necessary. 3rd instars usually only need to be fed once a day, but 4th and 5th instars are bottomless guts and need to be fed morning and evening. Sometimes I will check again right before bed to see if an extra feeding is needed for the big cats. I do a partial cleaning of the containers once a day (i tend to prefer evenings). I simply dump the contents of the cup out into a tub, add a new piece of paper towel, add new milkweed and put the cats back in. I tend to not do a full bleach clean of the containers until after the cats have emerged as adults. I compost the old milkweed and fras for the garden.

The sturdy fabric on the tops of the lids usually provide a very secure base for the silk and cremaster to hold on to. Occasionally, a cat decides to rush the chrysalis process and falls to the bottom of the container. To rehang the chrysalis: I take cotton string and cut them into 8" long pieces. I then separate the strands of the string and tie an individual strand around the base of the cremaster. After that it's just a matter of tying the string to something to hang the chrysalis. For the containers, I tape the ends of the string to the outside of the containers and then put the lid on to hold the chrysalis in place.

When the containers are fully done being used, I pull off the empty chrsyalis and throw them away. I put 2-3 table spoons of bleach into the container and fill to the top with water and let sit for 20-30min. I often have 4 cups bleaching at a time and then reuse the bleach water for the next batch by just pouring it into the next set of cups. I soap up a sponge and wipe out the bleached containers and rinse and air dry. I have a small dish tub I fill with with bleach water and soak the lids in. After I just rinse thoroughly in water and set out to dry. I don't find any need to scrub the lids. The strong bleach mix will actually remove any silk from the sides of the containers.




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[Wyvern]

The first wave group is finally done. The second wave is off to a shaky start. They just could not get their timing "synchronized" for me. First wavers would emerge in groups at the same time and be ready for release by noon each day. The 2nd wavers are popping out at odd times. Hopefully tomorrow will be better timed lol.

Tagged a total of 185 as of today.

Only 315 more to go to reach my goal.

[summerluver]

I am SO impressed with your methods and would like to try them next year. Thanks for the pictures and web site for the containers. Where do you collect so many eggs?

[applestar]

@Wyvern -- Seconding summerluver's thanks for your detailed reply. It all looks awesome!

[dandjtaylor]

My setup is similar:

Eggs: 20 at a time in sandwich containers
1st-4th: 4 at a time in same type container with a paper towel on the bottom and a mesh doylie on top between the cover and the cats (slight ventilation). Milkweed leaves as necessary. Cleaned daily.
5th: 3 at a time in clear plastic paint can liners from Home Depot. These big boys get Common Milkweed; it's less time consuming and simply easier. The sometime pupate on the stems, saving the doylie.
Likewise, if one lags after the others pupate, he gets moved so as not to damage the other chrysalis.

Upon pupation, they get moved either to my eclosing box or a temporary holding rack. If there are too many in the box or there is a big eclosing day, they need room to eclose and hang so I keep a lot of the fresh chrysalis on the holding rack.

Morning feeding - 15 minutes
Lunchtime feeding cats and tagging new flies - 20-30 minutes
Evening feeding, cleaning, counting, picking a couple days of leaves and looking for new eggs - up to 2 hours.

It is very rewarding though and the wife loves releaing them as well as the beautiful garden she gets.

Dwayne
Waystation #2638

[Wyvern]

I am SO impressed with your methods and would like to try them next year. Thanks for the pictures and web site for the containers. Where do you collect so many eggs?

I have a small milkweed patch at home. I usually get about 20-30 from there in a season, but with the egg dumping going on I had over a hundred collected. Same at work.. small patches there and normally get about 50-75 in a season, but this year I collected probably between 300-400. I have a friend on the eastern shore that has a nice large patch near his farm. Last year I collected about 200 (this was a thorough search of the entire patch), but this year I only sampled the big patch here and there and still collected over 150. There are a few natural areas and road side patches near my work that I raid sometimes. This year I collected sparingly from them since I was already getting a lot from my 3 primary spots. Basically the only thing I really collected from them minor spots were any eggs/cats that happened to be on leaves I was randomly stripping to help feed the hoard at home...probably got about 100 collectively from those spots.

[Wyvern]

Upon pupation, they get moved either to my eclosing box or a temporary holding rack. If there are too many in the box or there is a big eclosing day, they need room to eclose and hang so I keep a lot of the fresh chrysalis on the holding rack.

Morning feeding - 15 minutes
Lunchtime feeding cats and tagging new flies - 20-30 minutes
Evening feeding, cleaning, counting, picking a couple days of leaves and looking for new eggs - up to 2 hours.

It is very rewarding though and the wife loves releaing them as well as the beautiful garden she gets.

Dwayne
Waystation #2638

I like the containers... max you have to deal with at any one time would be four of the flutters... not a hoard of dozens all trying to escape as a large eclose cage would.

Very much rewarding if exhausting. Right now I am glad the majority of the hoard are in their C's. Down to just 8 containers with cats to feed. 3rd-5th instar cats are the easiest to care for.. dump, clean, refill, replace. It's the newly hatched through 2nd instars that are so time consuming cause you can't rush trying to move them.. way too delicate and too easy to squish or accidentally throw them away lol. Early on this season, it was taking me about 6-8 hours each night to deal with the ~90 condiment cups full of babies.... but dealing with 150 large containers would only take about 2 hours max LOL. Tagging times go pretty quick if a group emerges at the same time and are all dry at the same time. Testing for OE is the only time consuming part and I am not testing everything this year.. just sampling.

[Monarch MaMa]

I am [i]aching[i] with jealousy! You are still finding eggs on the East Coast & Upper Central Plains?!

The butterflies here (SE MI) have stopped laying eggs about 3 weeks ago, most of the cats are 4-5th instar if not already in a chrysalis. I did find some eggs near Lake Erie (s. of MI about 40 miles) and those are 2-3 instar so I'll have some to help me celebrate my birthday in a few weeks, but alas, no more eggs. Probably a good thing because most of the milkweed here is drying up and yellow due to lack of rain.

As for raising, I prefer to keep the cats in 5 quart ice cream plastic buckets with tulle over the top. I've recently started using florist's vials to keep the stems watered, cutting the top off the plant and they stay very fresh for at least 2 days, or until the cats have defoliated them! Next year I'm going to start using larger buckets, the kind you get with 20# of cat litter and put bigger plants & more cats in each with those vials on the milkweeds. I've had no trouble with diseases so until I do, I can put lots of cats together as long as they are the same size. Besides with this system, the very little 1-2 instars don't have to be moved because the plant is 'alive' and just a little shaking removes the frass.

I've had 2 chrysalis develop without the old cat head skin capsule slipping off during that last molt. One emerged 10 days later without a probiscus but I released it anyway. The next is still hanging but I'm afraid when I tried to help remove that old head shell, its probiscus and/or front leg got damaged. And strangely enough another chrysalis fell because of an absent cremaster. Try as I might, the cremaster stub would NOT adhere to cat silk and it crushed itself under its weight while laying sideways. Are these normal problems??

[Mona Miller]

Yes, these are normal. I've never gotten 100%. Sometimes I have heard that a caterpillar will silk over a pupa and that will cause the skin to snag.

[Wyvern]

Latest update:

Tagged a total of 253 as of today.

Only 247 more to go to reach my goal.

I am waiting on 244 chrysalis's and 18 cats. 4 of the chrysalis don't look good, but with the extra cats I think I shall still reach my goal with a few left overs.

[Mona Miller]

Are you tagging only reared ones? Do you ever get out your net? It's hard to net those Monarchs traveling to Mexico. I've had to wear camo clothing and move very slowly with the net behind my back.

[summerluver]

I wish I had some milkweed patches around here -- so much development there are few wild places anymore. My milkweed is in such bad shape even the tussock moths didn't last out there. I have a question - while I was out today and not able to keep an eye on things, a butterfly eclosed shortly after a caterpillar was entering the pupa stage, and when I came home the buttefly was walking all over the dripping chrysalis. You could see where it had gotten scratched. It looked like it was in the normal shape, so it must have been at least an hour before it started getting walked on, but it was still soft. It was wiggling slightly for quite a while, but has dripped out quite a bit of black fluid. I swear it still seems to wiggle while I'm staring at it. Is there any way this is still a viable life, or should I cut it down? There's a black chrysalis really near it, so I'm hoping another butterfly won't be walking on it tomorrow. By the way, I keep a log book of my hatches, and have consistently noticed that at the beginning of the season I have mostly males, but towards the end it's almost all females. Anyone else have the same results? I'm glad I'm not the only nut spending at least 2 hours a day tending butterflies!

[Mona Miller]

We're not nuts, we are passionate, obsessive nature lovers.

If it were hard enough, you could mist it with water, wait, pull the silk carefully and put it in another location. Leaking black is not a good sign, but I always leave them to see what happens. I've been surprised by misshapen, leaking pupae and gotten viable butterflies from them.

[summerluver]

I got the newborn out of there this morning before he climbed on my injured pupae. His abdomen is still big, and it's after 6pm here, and he can't fly. He was already out by 9am when I checked. I'll mist the other one and hope for the best. He had hardened up nicely, but seems a bit skinnier than the others.

[Wyvern]

I've had some that were scratched up pretty good and leaking (including black leaking) and still got good butterflies out of them. Depending on how deep the damage goes, they either end up with totally deformed useless wings or if the scratches are minor they wind up with slightly torn wing edges when they finally emerge. I have had two that had perfect little circles in the middle of their wings even. The totally deformed ones I euthanize. The minor wing damaged ones are worthy of letting go since many butterflies suffer more serious wing injuries in the wild and still get around just fine. Of the minor damaged individuals I had this year, only one was not worthy of being tagged, but still releasable.. the rear wings were very very wavy...like she had just gotten a perm or something lol.

[summerluver]

Thanks for the feedback. Last year I had brought a few of my butterflies with me for school presentations that wound up lasting all day as the 4th grade teachers heard I was in the building, and unfortunately all the handling and moving caused 2 of my butterflies to get fractured wings. I went on "youtube" and there's actually lessons on how to do butterfly wing surgery on there!!! My 13 year old daughter and I bought the compound cement and tiny brush, prepared the other materials, and became monarch orthopedists. I thougt that if I put them One worked beautifully, but we found the other butterfly a couple days later in a neighbor's yard. I think she was weak to begin with, and wouldn't have survived long even without the wing damage. More evidence of the passion many people have for these gorgeous miracles of creation. I have church presentations tomorrow, for 4 classes, and the 4th graders again on Tuesday, but this time we're combining the c lasses, (even though I prefer for the kids to bond personally with the caterpillars and butterflies), so I should be out in a couple of hours and the butterflies shouldn't have to endure so much stress.

[Mona Miller]

I do let kids touch them, but only with one finger and one time. That is the rule I try to keep, to. I had two butterflies get wing damage today. Denise took the orange tags that on the tagging sheet and used those to bond the wing. The last butterfly that she repaired the wing of flew up, up and away. I think she liked her wing repair.

[Wyvern]

I usually let the butterflies touch the kids rather than the kids touching the butterflies.... i.e. letting a flutter sit on a finger or shirt until it's ready to fly away.

[Monarch MaMa]

To prevent new butterflies from damaging new chrysalis or hanging "J" cats: I keep these kids all separated. The cats are in containers, sorted by size. When they make a "J", they get moved to an inverted styrofoam cup via straight pin so if they fall, it's a short distance. I can get 10 "J"'s on one cup. The chrysalis's then get moved to a styrofoam wall awaiting eclosing. At this point, they go into a hatching box - a simple shoebox with the center of the lid cut out and the entire interior stapled with tulle (fine netting - about $3/yard at a fabric store). The side of the box also has a tulle-covered foam wall to pin the chrysalis onto. Here they hatch & hang a day before getting tagged & released. Fallen ones can easily climb up on the tulle to the top.

[Wyvern]

Update:

322 tagged so far as of today. (wave #3 was very kind and most emerged in one lump sum today, the rest of that group will emerge tomorrow)

Only 178 left to go to reach my goal.

I have exactly 178 chrysalis and 6 cats left. However I'm gonna have to hunt for a few extra cats to raise. I had a few more chrysalis go funky looking so I don't want to count on them producing viable butterflies. I also had 5 emerge early this morning (before I woke up) and when I found them it was too late...wings deformed from having fallen and not being able to get back up to stretch & dry properly.

I also had one ultra cute mini-monarch emerge but I could not tag her... the weight would have left her unable to fly - literally. I've always considered monarchs that were half the size of a regular one to be "small" but this micro is even smaller..a painted lady would be slightly bigger than her. I remember she was about the size of a 3rd instar cat when she went into chrysalis.

[Mona Miller]

I don't know why that happens--those dwarf Monarch. I saw some Red Spotted Purples this year that were the size of Hackberries. But, they sure are cute.

[summerluver]

Monarch Mama - How do you get the J's down and rehang using a straight pin? Whenever I've tried to rescue a fallen chyrsalis or relocate one, I can never get the cremaster to stick, and can't get the silk off to pin up.

[Monarch MaMa]

To hang "J" or chrysalis from a pin: note that the cat has spun a silk base about 1"-3" in diameter around the heavy white silk 'nub' that its back feet hang from. What you need to do is to loosen this silk base - mist lightly with water- and peel it off whatever the cat stuck it too. I gently take a long pin and work up the edges of the silk and then take my finger & scrape the edge up. It then peels off the tulle or plastic with the little cat attached. Poking the pin only thru the silk, you can hang it anywhere. ( If its on milkweed, that's harder than the tulle or plastic surfaces of our containers. If it is milkweed, just cut the plant around the base of the chrysalis & pin that to your wallboard. )

I'll try to upload a pic very soon for you.

[Monarch MaMa]

Summerluver - I hope this photo helps, if you pull enough silk off you'll have plenty to pin through. I always wrap the excess around the pin shaft for extra support. I don't recommend hanging J's from high places, they'll get hurt if they fall very far, that's why I pin them to an inverted styrofoam cup about 2" above the tabletop. Another tip: you'll see they are close to shedding their last cat skin when the antennae are floppy and limp and twisted. Just seconds before they split, they hang mostly straight down and their bodies pulse. I find it fascinating to watch the cremaster emerge and move up to connect with the silk just as the skin nearly falls away, then they writhe to secure the rough top of the cremaster to the silk as well as shrug off that old skin. I had one die last week with only 1/3 of normal size cremaster which didn't have a rough top to catch the silk. I held it with tweezers for 20 minutes, but the cremaster broke off leaving nothing for it to catch silk. Being new, its soft body fell flat & didn't form properly. A normal cremaster top either has hooks or snags to catch that silk, it will also catch cotton balls too.

The numbers refer to the date in August that it became a chrysalis. This way if it isn't a flutter in 14 days, I know it's not viable. All of these have since been tagged & released & should be on to Mexico.

[Monarch MaMa]

a closeup of 2 chrysalis - just photoed at 9:45pm EST tonight (9/7) & they will be ready to hatch tomorrow. Note the large quantity of silk removed and the pin thru the silk. These went into chrysalis August 26 & 27 so they are 12 & 13 days to hatch. I think its because its cooler in my home because husband insists on A/C.

[Monarch MaMa]

This shoe box has been converted to a monarch hatching box. The entire interior is stapled with fine tulle so if they fall, they can climb back up. One side of the wall is tulle-covered foam which I pin ready-to-hatch chrysalis to, near the top so they can climb up & hang down properly to form & dry. This is how I keep them separated so the cat's don't chew on the already-formed & helpless chrysalises. Paper towel on the bottom is replaced daily. I also cover this with paper to keep them calm & not damage their wings against the walls. Tomorrow I'll tag & release these beauties. Sigh... only 2-3 more weeks of hatchings.

Can anyone tell me the plural of chrysalis?

[Mona Miller]

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chrysalis
plural chry·sal·i·des \kri-ˈsa-lə-ˌdēz\ or chrys·a·lis·es

[Wyvern]

latest update...

406 successfully tagged - only 94 left to go.

I definitely need to get out this week and look for some extra cats. I have 94 tags left, but I am down to only 91 chrysalis and 5 of them may have deformed flutters emerge as they were damaged by other cats when they pupated.

[Mona Miller]

Wow!! You've come a long way. Hope you get those others found.

[Wyvern]

Well... went out in the rain today to collect some extra cats to cover my small deficit from bad chrysalis. I think I over did it a little.

I had searched about 3 dozen milkweed plants altogether. I came back with about 80 cats, 1 chrysalis, 19 eggs, 1 deer tick nymph and 4 micro-nymph ticks of indeterminate species. It was obvious that there is still egg dumping going on out there by the monarchs... close to half the eggs came from one plant. Same with cats... half a dozen or more on various individual plants.

I'm definitely covered on making my 500 goal now. Question is.. should I buy another 25 or 50 tags for all the extra extra extra cats LOL.

[Mona Miller]

On the one hand you could buy extra tags, on the other hand if some of those don't make it then you will have extra tags. But, you can always send them back to Monarch Watch if you don't use them.

[summerluver]

Wyvern - Cigars all around for such a healthy nursery you've managed this year - such a proud daddy! Good luck finding 'pillars'. First year I haven't found even one in the wild, but I am coming across Tussock Moth larvae. Monarchmama - you're brilliant. I don't think I'd have the courage to grab a "j" - I'm so afraid I'll interrupt the cycle and stress them into deformity, but I do think I'll try that styafoam thing next year with the chrysalises (right Mona), that have hardened. I saw something that looked like that at Hershey Gardens last year in the butterfly house, but thought they were just on display. Have you had any trouble with infected cats spreading OE with them all being together like that? I can't allow this terrible bacteria to wipe out over half of what I've raised again next summer, and definately need to move into something different for next year. Although the open air screen "habitat" I built to fit my dining room buffet is pretty to look at, it's way too contagious for everyone, and causes other problems.
You guys are giving me things to work on for next summer that will get me through my winter drearies. I'm also going to raise more Tropical milkweed from the pods I gather this fall. It's still blooming! Although we get some good freezes here, I have a couple of plantings that come up each year, and it's these plants that got the most attention from my egg-laying females this year. They don't have the disease problems that the common milkweed does. One of my plantings is in my veggie garden which has been devasted by every fungus known to man this year, but the milkweed's still going and seems to be immune to them. It's a much prettier plant as well. I also ordered a new biologically safe fungicide from "Garden's Alive" to try on a test area in my big Common milkweed garden to try and keep it healthy next year, and keep the green aphids off.
I'm winding down for the year too, regretfully. (At least they'll be gone so I can take my trip to Cape May at the end of the month for the migration - I don't go anywhere from mid-July through mid-September!), I have 17 chrysalises left and only 2 cats, plus the 2 that I brought to the 4th graders to raise yesterday. In the Monarchwatch update from Chip Taylor this week he forcasts the lowest amount of Monarchs migrating this season since 2002. Knowing their are other people dedicated to their survival out there helps me keep the hope alive that we can really help them survive for future generations. I ordered the DVD "The Butterfly Story" ($4.00!) from the Monarch Teacher Network and watched it tonight and it's really good. I'm buying more to give to friends. Will help me share their situation with others.

[summerluver]

Wow Wyvern - while I was writing my post you sent in some good news about your search today. Since I had such an abysmal year, I have about 55 extra tags I can send you. I can't even find 3 dozen plants in the same place around here!

[Mona Miller]

I've also taken that Monarch Teacher Network training. I helped out last year, but didn't get to help out this year because of time constraints.

Journey’s and Transformations – The Monarch Butterfly Story DVD
http://www.eirc.org/website/Programs-%2 ... er-Network
Their DVD is great and very inexpensive. Not just for teachers.
The training is not just for teachers either. They invite those interested in education to attend their workshops. I attended as a naturalist. I work with parks, schools, libraries, etc.

If you use styrofoam make sure you line with tulle. The butterflies need to hang on to something. I think they can grab the styrofoam, but adding netting makes for a better opportunity to hang properly and not fall.

[Mona Miller]

Since I had such an abysmal year, I have about 55 extra tags I can send you. I can't even find 3 dozen plants in the same place around here!

Have you joined the Monarch Teacher Network list serve? Anyone can join. It connects you with other teachers in your area that can share knowledge of where to find milkweed and may share Monarchs with you.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MTNonline/

Also, follow the migration with updates from Journey South:
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/monarch/index.html

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/monarch/DataReported.html
View postings of sightings. You can even contact the person who made the sighting.

[Wyvern]

Wyvern - Cigars all around for such a healthy nursery you've managed this year - such a proud daddy! Good luck finding 'pillars'. First year I haven't found even one in the wild, but I am coming across Tussock Moth larvae. Monarchmama - you're brilliant. I don't think I'd have the courage to grab a "j" - I'm so afraid I'll interrupt the cycle and stress them into deformity, but I do think I'll try that styafoam thing next year with the chrysalises (right Mona), that have hardened.

Ah, J cats can take a lot of rough housing actually. No need to worry about damaging them while moving them unless they have already split the skin to begin the change. When I find them outside, I just cut the twig they are hanging on and then suspend that over a cup and secure it with the lid. I had two this year I found in the J outside.. one hanging on a maple leaf and the other on one of my aparagus plants.

Wow Wyvern - while I was writing my post you sent in some good news about your search today. Since I had such an abysmal year, I have about 55 extra tags I can send you. I can't even find 3 dozen plants in the same place around here!

Ah, you just need to scope out areas like open parks with wild natural areas versus manicured lawn type settings as well as safe road side spots and also grow your own. Also, try finding some local farms to scope out. Milkweed usually prefers to grow along the edges of tilled farmland. The place I was at is an undeveloped protected park natural area - several hundred acres... originally farmland years ago allowed to grow over and was more or less turned into a bluebird box conservation trail around the various fields. The milkweed patches are small and spread out in different spots. The 3 dozen or so plants i was collected from was from 4 of 6 spots on one side of one field... there are dozens of other spots I haven't even touched in years along other fields....old dirt/gravel road is really rough to drive on and beavers don't help when they bring trees down in some spots. And where is a lot of rain (as there was this spring/summer), the maintenance crew doesn't bother to even attempt to mow the road areas cause they get stuck lol... oh yeah.. so much fun driving on wet grass while going down a hill... more like sliding down the hill....and trudging along an overgrown trail with 4 foot tall brush and grass while wet... yeah lots of fun - just not for the buggy squeamish types or those who are petrified about ticks.

You might want to take Mona on her suggestion and find someone more local to your area to give your tags to. MW keeps track of where they send coded tags to so it may be better to stick closer to home. I went ahead and purchased another 50 tags just for the heck of it. Though with natural attrition rates, I probably won't get to use all of them. Many of the cats I collected from this particular site were 2nd/3rd instars which is a prime size for likely parasitic fly infestations...we shall hope it's not too bad.. as far as fly problems this year I've done pretty good, but then again about 2/3 of what I raised this year were from eggs so no flies to infect them.

[Mona Miller]

Actually, the only problem with giving someone else tags is that you need to make sure you write the person who bought the tags and the person who is using the tags.

http://monarchwatch.org/tagmig/2009datasheet_std.pdf
First page of the datasheet:
"Please let us know of lost, redistributed, or damaged tags and return any unused tags with your completed datasheets as soon as possible and preferably before December 1, 2009."

I didn't mean to imply that people couldn't redistribute tags--sorry.

[Monarch MaMa]

I'm seriously considering using a whole styrofoam cooler as an upgrade to my small shoebox. Of coarse, I'll staple washed tulle entirely around the interior after its sterilized & cleaned. On the lid, I'll cut a viewing hole and staple more tulle to cover the opening & allow air in; I think I'll also add a smaller 'door', maybe 4"x5" for my arm to reach in and retrieve monarchs so I can tag & release them. Just a note for anyone, leave 2" or more of extra tulle around the lid or door edges so the tulle 'flaps' can prevent the adults from sneaking out. This way I can pin chrysalises to the entire interior and move the whole container easily. It combines my styrofoam wall and hatching box into one unit. Then at the end of the season, bleach & wash it all & use it to store my cat containers until next year!

Does anyone know if OE can spread from chrysalis to chrysalis? If it does, goodbye styrofoam cooler box.

[summerluver]

I just got back from my daughter's Back to School Night, and her high school science teacher was talking about other areas that she's involved in within the school, and one of them is an environmental club. At the end of class I approached her to try and talk her club into planting some milkweed, and she shared with me that she had actually taken the Teacher's Monarch workshop, and that she was having difficulty finding any cats this year to bring in for her club. She also has put an initial milkweed planting in the back of the school, and wants to expand it. I'm giving her some of my Tropical seeds, and sending in the DVD to show her club to generate some support. My husband and I went on an hour ride that led us two counties away looking for milkweed, and there's just not much around here. Will try and seek out farmed areas as you suggested, because state parks here don't seem to be working. Meadows don't seem to be included in them.

[Wyvern]

latest update...


495 monarchs successfully tagged. 5 more to go to reach my goal of 500. I ordered an additional 50 tags to help take care of the extra cats I was raising as back ups and I know I won't likely use all 50 of them.

two of the tagged monarchs unfortunately are officially out of commission. One got snagged and eaten by an orb weaver. the other was found a few days later on the ground under a butterfly bush. It was flapping erratically and such. Apparently his proboscis was not working properly and he could not feed and was fairly well starved by the time he was found. I could not get him to eat for me either and he was euthanized.

[Mona Miller]

Congrats on the good news. Sorry for the bad news. Unfortunately, many, many fall victim to predators.

[Wyvern]

#500 was tagged and released today! The goal I set this year has been reached.

Now I just have to wait for all my extras to finish growing up so I can get them tagged with the extra tags I bought.

[summerluver]

CONGRATULATIONS!! I've been waiting for the good news. Your success makes up for the failures some of us have had. I released my 35th today --- whoopee! Did any of the big guys that you found have parasites? I found 3 myself. One had a little thing in the back of his neck that looked like a pricker and it seemed to be annoying him, but I couldn't get it out with the tweezers. It's apparent on the chrysalis too in the same spot, and I couldn't scratch it off. Any idea what it could be?

[Wyvern]

CONGRATULATIONS!! I've been waiting for the good news. Your success makes up for the failures some of us have had. I released my 35th today --- whoopee! Did any of the big guys that you found have parasites? I found 3 myself. One had a little thing in the back of his neck that looked like a pricker and it seemed to be annoying him, but I couldn't get it out with the tweezers. It's apparent on the chrysalis too in the same spot, and I couldn't scratch it off. Any idea what it could be?

The last big batch I collected for the extras....

Of the 3rd, 4th, & 5th instars - only a couple had fly parasites...the rest are in chrysalis and should begin eclosing any day. One of the chrys is a little spotty looking so it may have a fly or not.. have to wait and see.

The smaller younger cats I had collected (1st/2nd instars) though apparently had some kind of virus as by the time they reached 3rd instar size I began losing entire groupings at a time... not like one or two here and there, but more like one day an entire container of cats would be fine, then the next day everyone would be spitting up green fluid and going lethargic and dying by the next day, but a different container of cats would be perfectly fine. Since they were all feeding from the same batch of milkweed I know it wasn't the food making them sick. I lost about 2/3 of them. Of the survivors, about half have gone into their chrysalis this weekend - 2 failed to pupate (no fly parasites though). The others will be pupating soon. I'm wondering if there is a Monarch version of the flu? Usually when I get what I call the 'green death' (i.e. spitting up green fluid then dying - though occasionally some are strong enough to recover) it only hits a monarch cat here and there - not an entire container of cats housed together.

The eggs I hatched, that group seems to be doing ok so far.. .just moved them from the condiment cups to one of the bigger cups.

Your cat/chrys could have a wasp parasite.. be interesting to see if it is. It's been many years since I've had monarchs infected with wasps. I seem to remember their larva can have an air tube of some kind so that could be what you see 'sticking out' ?