LOTS of butterfly weed!

Discuss your green thumb (or lack thereof ;-) when it comes to propagation of milkweed and other garden plants.

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LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:31 am

The 10 acre area on top of my hill in SE Indiana is gorgeous with perhaps 1000 butterfly weed plants, some clumps of which are more than 2 feet in diameter. We last sprayed to kill the fescue last October, and just planted in warm season grasses and wildflowers this spring, so the butterfly weed is mostly a native "crop" with perhaps some I planted here and there by seed the year before. Zebra, tiger, pipevine, black, and spicebush swallowtails are all nectaring on it, as are monarchs, fritillaries, and lots of honeybees. I've seen monarch cats on it as well as the not-as-common-up-there common milkweed. I'll post when seed pods are available for those who want some.

Another 10 acres will be planted next spring, bringing the total "butterfly preserve" area of my 153 acres to 25!
Frit and Pipe.JPG
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:56 am

Impressive! Do you have any landscape photos? Can you tell us in more detail how you were able to establish so much butterfly weed on such a large acreage? In other words, I guess you applied a herbicide in the Spring, but then what did you do to the soil to prepare it for the butterfly weed seeds?
And did you just scatter the seeds or cover them with dirt? Thanks.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:45 am

Hi, Paul! Next year may be even better for a landscape photo . . . the seed mix of forbs provided by the USFWS through their Partners for Wildlife program included butterfly weed! I had no idea there was that much up there in the soil (seeds and roots) until this year, so it was one of the seeds I requested. And the amount of rain we had this spring was just right. I do have a decent landscape photo taken on July 3 and some in March when it looked like a "dead zone". I'm a newbie to uploading photos to this site; I'd rather not have the scroll bars like I'm seeing with the last photo. I'd tried re-sizing it with Microsoft Photo editor to get it under 256KB, and that worked ok and looked nice & small'ish on my monitor, but the upload didn't go as I'd like. Any advice appreciated on that. Maybe I can post them somewhere and just put links here.

So, in the summer of 2008, several weeks after my spraying guy sprayed the first time with Roundup in May to kill the fescue, I went around with a hoe and just scratched the surface in several places, sprinkled some seeds from packets, & covered them. Knowing he was going to spray again (via a tractor naturally) in October and possibly again in early spring, I didn't mark those places. So I don't really know which are from that seed. I definitely didn't plant anywhere near as much as there is. It just came up because the fescue, which is a sod-forming cold season grass, was out of its way.

Then on May 30, 2009, I spent many hours on the back of the seed drill with him, keeping the forbs seed "portals" flowing. The fluffy coneflower seeds tended to clog them. We had to run over the butterfly weed at the time, and I wasn't sure if it would be ok afterward. Wow, was it resilient! I was gone on a leatherback turtle conservation project for a few weeks, so I didn't see it again until June 21, and was really surprised to see so much of it in bloom! There's more common milkweed up there than ever before, too. I also bought some common milkweed seed and added it to be drilled on a few acres down below the 10 acre one. The drill was set to plant at a certain depth; it cuts the soil with discs and then little wheels run over those cuts to cover the seeds.

In that same smaller field, in March, I'd found some common milkweed pods and "snow planted" them; I pushed the snow aside and put the seeds in contact with the soil and pushed the snow back over them. Whether that accounts for the additional milkweed that came up, I don't know, but there are much bigger patches than ever before. This spring, I saw my first monarch there and a big cat.

The Quail Habitat Incentive Program and Landowner Incentive Program are helping to cover the cost of spraying and planting labor due to its benefiting not only the quail but also the Hensley sparrow and short-eared owl. The warm season grasses are still small but growing; the big bluestem can grow to 6 feet in height as can some of the forbs I bought & added to the USFWS mix, like hyssop and cup plant. After the perennial seeds get their wintering over this year, next year should be spectacular!

Thanks for your interest! It's so personally rewarding to see the change and share it.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:29 pm

Wow, thanks for the info. You might try photobucket.com to upload your 100-300K size photos
with dimensions of approx 800 x 600 pixels (or smaller) and then copy and paste the links to the individual .jpg photos on the forum like this:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... h/gilb.jpg
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:22 pm

Thanks, I also found a free web-based, easy to use photo re-sizer. There's no software to download:

http://webresizer.com/resizer/

Frit_and_pipe_opt.jpg
A pipevine swallowtail and a great-spangled fritillary
Frit_and_pipe_opt.jpg (58.41 KiB) Viewed 9511 times
Landscape_butterfly_weed_opt.jpg
Part of 10-acre "project" on July 3, 2009. The woods nearby has a lot of spice bush, and a lot of invasive honeysuckle which I'll be hiring a crew to help eradicate.
Landscape_butterfly_weed_opt.jpg (72.68 KiB) Viewed 9499 times
Two_pipes_opt.jpg
2 pipevine swallowtails
Two_pipes_opt.jpg (59.12 KiB) Viewed 9491 times
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby texas butterfly » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:19 pm

Neat photos.....
You are lucky to have that much land.
And the butterflies are lucky too!!!!
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:33 am

Roundup is not as benign as you all might think:
https://research.wsulibs.wsu.edu:8443/d ... essell.pdf
The Effects of Pesticide Interactions Malathion and Glyphosate with An emerging viral Disease in tiger Salamanders (Ambystoma tigrinum)
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:35 am

Thanks, Mona! I certainly don't recommended using RoundUp when another method is possible; in California, for example, we had the landscape guy hire several workers to hoe up the entire front and back yards, exposing the soil to the hot sun to help eliminate weed seeds. That worked very well. On a project this size, though, there's just no other way to eradicate something like the sod-forming fescue. I wish there were. One should certainly stay well clear of waterways and ponds and use the lowest concentrations possible, as we did. There are several kinds of RoundUp; we used the kind that only effects growing plants, not germination of seeds.

Here's another interesting article:

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/2002 ... tracts.htm

"Experimental evidence has shown that neither glyphosate nor AMPA bioaccumulates in any animal tissue. No significant toxicity occurred in acute, subchronic, and chronic studies."

"Therefore, it is concluded that the use of Roundup herbicide does not result in adverse effects on development, reproduction, or endocrine systems in humans and other mammals."

AMPA is glyphosate's major breakdown product aminomethylphosphonic acid. Amphibians are not mentioned in that article.

But this article shows opposite findings in laboratory studies where the concentrations were probably much higher than when used properly. There's a good section about persistence in water and soil:

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roun ... et-Cox.htm

And part 2 goes into detail on effects to fish and beneficial organisms:

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roun ... t-Cox2.htm
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Pixie » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:34 pm

Chrys - I want to thank you for the webresizer site.........I had been trying to send photos but they were always too big. Today I was able to resize one & it worked..........I submitted it under Monarch Sightings if you would like to check it out - a female laying eggs...............I am sure I will be using this site often................
Thanks again.........
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby mlmj0210 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:20 pm

What an awesome undertaking. Thanks for sharing your story. I will look forward to more pictures
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:22 pm

ChrysCook wrote:Here's another interesting article:
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/2002 ... tracts.htm
"Experimental evidence has shown that neither glyphosate nor AMPA bioaccumulates in any animal tissue. No significant toxicity occurred in acute, subchronic, and chronic studies."
"Therefore, it is concluded that the use of Roundup herbicide does not result in adverse effects on development, reproduction, or endocrine systems in humans and other mammals."
AMPA is glyphosate's major breakdown product aminomethylphosphonic acid. Amphibians are not mentioned in that article.
But this article shows opposite findings in laboratory studies where the concentrations were probably much higher than when used properly. There's a good section about persistence in water and soil:
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roun ... et-Cox.htm
And part 2 goes into detail on effects to fish and beneficial organisms:
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roun ... t-Cox2.htm


I think you skipped over too much data on those websites. If you read them thoroughly, it is appalling what destruction these herbicides cause.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:52 am

Here’s what the University Extension Toxicology Network has to say about Glyphosate
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/glyphosa.htm

ACUTE TOXICITY: Glyphosate is practically nontoxic by ingestion

CHRONIC TOXICITY: Studies of glyphosate lasting up to 2 years, have been conducted with rats, dogs, mice, and rabbits, and with few exceptions no effects were observed

REPRODUCTIVE EFFECTS: Laboratory studies show that glyphosate produces reproductive changes in test animals very rarely and then only at very high doses

TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: In a teratology study with rabbits, no developmental toxicity was observed in the fetuses at the highest dose tested

MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Glyphosate mutagenicity and genotoxicity assays have been negative

CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Rats given oral doses of up to 400 mg/kg/day did not show any signs of cancer, nor did dogs given oral doses of up to 500 mg/kg/day or mice fed glyphosate at doses of up to 4500 mg/kg/day

ORGAN TOXICITY: Some microscopic liver and kidney changes, but no observable differences in function or toxic effects, have been seen after lifetime administration of glyphosate to test animals

FATE IN HUMANS AND ANIMALS: Glyphosate is poorly absorbed from the digestive tract and is largely excreted unchanged by mammals.

EFFECTS ON BIRDS: Glyphosate is slightly toxic to wild birds.

EFFECTS ON AQUATIC ORGANISMS: Technical glyphosate acid is practically nontoxic to fish and may be slightly toxic to aquatic invertebrates.

EFFECTS ON OTHER ORGANISMS: Glyphosate is nontoxic to honeybees

BREAKDOWN IN SOIL AND GROUND WATER: Glyphosate is moderately persistent in soil, with an estimated average half-life of 47 days

BREAKDOWN IN WATER: Its half-life in pond water ranges from 12 days to 10 weeks
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:38 am

There is a way to bring back a natural area after it has been farmed. A local nature preserve (700 acres) has been plowing and burning areas. They are also using manpower to take out invasive species, too:

http://www.bansheereeks.org/
Banshee Reeks is a Nature Preserve in Loudoun County, Virginia

http://www.chem-tox.com/malathion/research/
Wayne Sinclair, M.D. Allergy, Asthma & Immunology (Immunology Board Certified) Richard W. Pressinger, M.Ed., Tampa, Florida "The medical research below was located from the University of Florida and University of South Florida Medical Libraries. As can be seen clearly from the research summarized below, contrary to what the public is being told by the Agriculture Industry and some governmental agencies, scientists are stating that malathion (even at low levels) is in fact, a harmful chemical." -- Read it if you can take the awful truth.

http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pestici ... -risks.htm
"Let's correct several common misunderstandings. First, the EPA does not test malathion. EPA only sets up the guidelines for the testing. The chemical companies then conduct their own tests and submit the results to EPA for review (foxes guarding the hen house?). In fact, there have been occurrences in the past, such as with Industrial Bio-Test Labs, in which falsified and fraudulent data was submitted to EPA. (Remember, there is extreme financial gain to be made from registration of a chemical)."
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:46 am

Thanks for the continued interested. Malathion is an insecticide / pesticide. I have no intention of using it anywhere!
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:32 am

Malathion helped me raise about 500 monarch caterpillars outdoors in April
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/mala.jpg The Malathion doesn't hurt the toads which are common in my yard. I used Roundup in February to kill weeds that would otherwise crowd and shade the milkweed that comes up in late March.

I had an outbreak of spider mites in June that attacked my Buddleia bushes so I pruned them and
applied abamectic miticide (Avid 0.15 EC). In September I'll have a beautiful crop of Buddleia bush flowers with dozens of monarchs feeding on them thanks to the miticide.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:46 am

http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pestici ... hosate.htm
Chemically, glyphosate is an organophosphate like many other pesticides but it does not affect the nervous system as other organophosphates do. It is a broad spectrum, non-selective herbicide which kills all plants, including grasses, broad leaf and woody plants. It is absorbed mainly through the leaves and is transported around the whole plant, killing all parts of it. It acts by inhibiting a biochemical pathway, the shikimic acid pathway. At low levels of application it acts as a growth regulator.
There are three forms of glyphosate used as weed killers; glyphosate-isopropylammonium and glyphosate-sesquiodium patented by Monsanto and glyphosate-trimesium, patented by ICI (now Zeneca). Other common brand names are Rodeo, Accord and Vision.
Glyphosate is technically extremely difficult to measure in environmental samples. Only a few laboratories have the sophisticated equipment and techniques necessary. This means that data is often lacking on residue levels in food and the environment and existing data may not be reliable.

http://www.chem-tox.com/pesticides/index.htm#roundup
Common Weed Killer (Roundup) Shows Evidence of Environmental and Health Problems
SOURCE: Organic Gardening, July, 2000 See the complete article at the "Organic Gardening" web site
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby kat_langan » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:00 pm

Gorgeous Photos!!
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:18 pm

The safe use of chemicals does have its place. Even at Banshee Reeks, they're going to have to use an herbicide on the ailanthus (tree of heaven) trees. One of the volunteers wrote me back:

"We haven't yet tackled the large ailanthus trees. For these, we will need a different approach since simply cutting these trees down stimulates copious growth shooting up from the remaining roots resulting in more trees than you started out with. So we are considering the use of a method known as 'hack-and-squirt' whereby an axe is used to place four small hacks around the trunk about four feet off the ground, then a relatively safe herbicide (check with your County agent) is carefully sprayed directly into the hacks. This kills the entire tree and root system preventing any subsequent new growth. This method was recommended by a state arborist as being safe and effective."

At a nearby 80-acre public woods known for its diversity of flora and large trees, a group of volunteers from the college, under the supervision of the park director, cut Asian honeysuckle bushes and dragged them to the chipper to be mulched, while the park staff and trained volunteers sprayed just the stumps with RoundUp. Without the spraying effort, the honeysuckle would quickly resprout and resume creating a mono-cultural understory.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:17 am

I hadn't heard about this. The Banshee park manager told me that they'd never use chemicals. They even use a tractor to pull out stumps of Russian Olive. So, currently they are talking about it. It is still better than blanket spraying a whole area. Banshee has some incredible wildlife that lives there year round or visits during migrations.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby texas butterfly » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:07 pm

There is a nature preserve near me and they do use a weed killer type product in certain cases on invasive species removal. But, certain criteria have to fit before they just use the weed killer.

The target is Tallow Trees.

This is only done when the roots and plant are so large that there is no way that the tree can be removed or killed otherwise. And also, the tree has been attempted to be manually removed. If this has been attempted without success then weed killer is ordered.

I think balance is key and avoid using pesticides and weed killer when an alternative can be found.

It seems that our history in general has been to mis-manage the environment. And a mis-managed environment will have imbalance of the nature, predators, feeders, etc.....

Sometimes too it seems that we "force" non-native plants and that has also brought in the invasive plants, invasive bugs, etc.....

And sometimes it is just the natural cycle of nature.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:27 pm

In some areas of the USA where pesticide use is great, butterflies, moths, frogs, honeybees, bumblebees, etc. can still be abundant.

In Iowa & southern Minnesota, for example, 75% of the entire landscape is covered with monocultures of herbicide and insecticide treated crops and yet butterflies can still be this abundant:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... h/gilc.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... h/gilb.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... lbestt.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... /monod.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... h/trua.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/true.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... ch/lia.jpg

At night in Iowa, moths are also spectacularly abundant like this around the farm building and street lights:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/moths.jpg

Pollination of milkweeds growing next to the crop monocultures in Iowa is so good the plants produce seed pods this thick:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/pods.jpg

The margins pesticide treated crops are sometimes even considered State Game Refuges:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/game.jpg

Driving along the farm roads of Iowa one encounters lots of other wildlife such as snakes:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/snake.jpg
Racoons: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/racoon.jpg
deer, foxes, etc.

Plus swarms of non-lep insects such as dragonflies:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/drag.jpg

I don't know of any books or websites that show the public photos like these of wildlife thriving on pesticide treated farmland. So my guess is the public has no idea wildlife could be abundant on farmland despite the chemical use.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:00 pm

And certainly cost is an issue with removal of invasive plants on private lands. I personally don't have the funds to pay someone for their time and equipment to do only manual removal. Before we sprayed the fescue areas with RoundUp (Japanese honeysuckle had also invaded those areas), I paid $2500 to have autumn olive, bush honeysuckle, and honey locusts removed with equipment so it would be practical to bring in a tractor to use the no-till seed drill. The federal and state programs I mentioned above advise using RoundUp as it is inexpensive and effective.

Here's another nature preserve advising manual methods and the prudent use of herbicides:

http://www.shawnature.org/documents/pdf/NLM%20Ch3.pdf

The Banshee Reeks volunteers were quite happy with the Weed Wrench, available here:

http://www.weedwrench.com/
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:03 pm

Paul Cherubini wrote:In some areas of the USA where pesticide use is great, butterflies, moths, frogs, honeybees, bumblebees, etc. can still be abundant. In Iowa & southern Minnesota, for example, 75% of the entire landscape is covered with monocultures of herbicide and insecticide treated crops and yet butterflies can still be this abundant:


1. Do these farms actually have signs on them that say they are monocultures of herbicide and insecticide treated crops? How do you know? Why are you traveling so far from your home in CA--that's a good 1,800 miles? And, why are you taking these pictures and labeling them? Does this have something to do with your job as a pesticide/herbicide salesman? Are you collecting data for the chemical companies for a study for the EPA?

2. The timeframe/species of butterflies (Monarch and Painted Ladies) that you are referring to is a time when both these are migrating.

3. Where's your pictures of milkweed in the middle of monocultures (GMO) of roundup ready crops? (Roundup ready crops don't die, when sprayed with roundup, but most of the weeds do.) Could it be that all that milkweed has been destroyed? Is that why you are showing us edges of fields?
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:21 am

1) Yes, the soybean fields commonly have signs on them that say the soybean field is herbicide tolerant and the corn field signs commonly say the corn is both herbicide tolerant and BT corn. Example: Close up of view of sign says the corn is Roundup Ready
and the Yieldgard Type (= BT Corn): http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... rfsign.jpg

Distant view of sign with a monarch caterpillar on milkweed growing next to the field
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/mnrf.jpg

Since the early 2000's the soybean fields in the Midwest have had fairly frequent outbreaks of the recently introduced Soybean aphid and so it's fairly common to see crop duster planes and helicopters spraying insecticide on the soybean fields during the mid and late summer like this:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... rfhele.jpg
Despite all this herbicide and insecticide spraying, I find monarchs, other butterflies, moths, frogs, bumblebees, etc. are still common along the edges of the fields.

I sell grain and rodent control fumigants to customers I have in the Midwest so that's the main reason why I've been going there annually for 20 years (and a few times before that for other reasons)

I take and label the pictures to educate the public about what is really happening. I'm not aware of any monarch documentary films nor any of the monarch conservation websites that ever shows photos of all the pollinators, birds, frogs, etc. that occur in abundance along the margins of crop fields. This is new information for most people who were raised and still live in cities.

2.) The Painted Ladies don't migrate in the summer or fall in the upper Midwest. In outbreak years like 2003 and 2005 the population explodes in mid-summer along the crop margins like this:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... h/gilc.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... h/gilb.jpg
and then huge numbers remain there during September and gradually die out as the autumn progresses.

Monarchs don't begin migrating in far southern Minnesota and Iowa until about August 24. So my early August photos of caterpillars and female monarchs laying eggs along the crop margins represent monarchs that originated there - they didn't migrate into the area from the north. Examples:
Caterpillar: http://saber.net/~monarch/balef.jpg
Close up view of two females laying eggs: http://saber.net/~monarch/baleh.jpg
Landscape view where these two females were seen:
http://saber.net/~monarch/balei.jpg
Landscape view where three more females were seen:
http://saber.net/~monarch/balej.jpg

3) In recent decades milkweed has not been real common in the middle of Midwestern corn and soybean fields. I know this because I've been visiting and taking photos of the Midwest soybean and corn fields since 1975. Nowadays, the milkweed is even less common in the middle of these fields not only because of the widespread adoption of herbicide tolerant crops, but because the corn plants are now grown so closely together milkweed cannot get enough light to grow well and female monarchs can reach the plants
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... nthick.jpg However, milkweed is still abundant along the crop margins (because herbicides are not used along the margins) and so large numbers of monarchs in the Midwest breed along the margins.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:19 am

Many butterflies do partial migrations south. The painted lady is one of them. And, the Monarch is migrating south, too. Not all Monarchs head south at the same time. There is a gradual push as the weather and hosts/nectar sources decline. In that group of Monarchs that are in diapause and this includes the painted ladies, too. There are individuals that are still capable of laying eggs.

If you have ever watched the "Butterfly King" video about the young man that goes out into the orchard and collects eggs to save them from dying of pesticides because the orchard is being sprayed, you'd start to wonder what in the world you are trying to prove. Pesticides/herbicides kill.

Your pictures only show one part of the story. What has happened before and what is happening after?
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby ChrysCook » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:08 pm

"Food Inc" is a must-see movie for everyone! Just saw it tonight. Monsanto declined to comment in the making of the film. You'll probably walk away enlightened and upset about some of their and other big players in the food industry's practices.

http://www.foodincmovie.com/
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:15 pm

I'll have to make sure I watch it. I am already too enlightened. :roll: I've been taking all these wonderful classes through the USDA Graduate/Audubon Naturalist Society. I just heard not too long ago that Monsanto was suing France and Germany because they would not allow the planting of GMO crops in those countries. I often shop at a oriental market where they are proud of the fact that the products that they are demonstrating do not contain GMO crops.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:33 pm

Mona Miller wrote:Many butterflies do partial migrations south. The painted lady is one of them. And, the Monarch is migrating south, too. Your pictures only show one part of the story. What has happened before and what is happening after?

What, specifically, are you questioning. What part of the story has not been told?

Dr. Royce Bitzer of Iowa State University has been studying the Midwestern Painted Lady migrations for years. He has said the Midwestern summer outbreak of Painted Ladies in 2005 originated in north-central Iowa which is where 75% of the landscape is covered with herbicide tolerant and sometimes insecticide treated soybeans and herbicide tolerant BT corn. In other words, the outbreak occurred despite the herbicide and insecticide treatments.

Monarchs arrive in southern Minnesota and Iowa each year in May and their numbers build until around Aug. 24, again, despite the herbicide and insecticide treatments.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:15 pm

http://www.jstor.org/pss/25083046
In 1978 in Iowa it was recommended that farmers use sevin (pesticide) to control painted ladies in soybean fields.

http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1770
Under range:
"Occasionally, population explosions in Mexico will cause massive northward migrations."

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mariposa/species.html
Here's the Iowa migration study. Can you show us where it says that it breeds in GMO crop fields?

I can't see how the painted lady is a pest anymore with the planting of Bt corn all over the united states.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:13 pm

Mona Miller wrote:http://www.jstor.org/pss/25083046 I can't see how the painted lady is a pest anymore with the planting of Bt corn all over the united states.

In July-Sept. 2005 the Painted Ladies exploded in Iowa like this:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... h/gila.jpg despite the fact that 30-40% of the Iowa landscape was covered with Bt Corn at the time of the outbreak.

As you can see in the photo above, these were young, brightly colored Painted Ladies that were born in Iowa. They were not faded Painted Lady migrants from Mexico.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:37 am

ChrysCook wrote:"Food Inc" is a must-see movie for everyone! Just saw it tonight. Monsanto declined to comment in the making of the film. You'll probably walk away enlightened and upset about some of their and other big players in the food industry's practices.
http://www.foodincmovie.com/


There's a good video on this website about roundup and Monsanto:
http://coverockfarm.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... crops.html
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Paul Cherubini » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:38 pm

Image
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:04 am

The locals aren't the crew destroying the forest. It is illegal loggers. Now, you tell us that the Monarchs are also having to deal with GMO crops, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah0SBALIc0o
National Geographic -- Monarchs in Mexico

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5q_SQL_8lM
L.P Brower discusses the Monarch butterflies in their wintering grounds in Mexico, and the illegal logging that threatens them.
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby Mona Miller » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:49 pm

Mona Miller wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah0SBALIc0o
National Geographic -- Monarchs in Mexico


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rko78QktS9A&feature=fvst
Ooops sorry, this is the National Geographic video
The monarch butterfly's wintering grounds in Mexico are in peril. Are the monarchs in trouble, too?
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Re: LOTS of butterfly weed!

Postby applestar » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:15 am

http://www.rodalepress.com/roundup-weed ... y-believed
roundup weed killer more toxic than originally believed
Lawn Care Chemical’s Deadly Secret
Report: A labeling loophole means the world’s most common herbicide is even more toxic than originally believed.
By Leah Zerbe
...
researchers who recently tested the product’s active ingredient in combination with certain inert ones found the combo makes this weed killer much more toxic than previously disclosed. “It’s not as benign as people are led to believe,”
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