sand vine or sandy vine

[freda]

Over on the Migration and Tagging forum there was a reference to sand vine or sandy vine and the fact that there were monarch caterpillars on it. I've never heard of this vine...it must obviously be of the milkweed family but I can't picture a milkweed vine. What does anyone know about this vine? I'm interested!!!

[James Price]

Sand vine (Cynanchum laeve) is indeed a vining milkweed and a very important monarch food in the southern U.S., where it is native. However, it is very hard to find seed for this plant because nearly every state in which it grows lists it as a noxious weed. Farmers hate it. It's said to be quite invasive and aggressive and impossible to eradicate once it is established. Naturally, I want some! I've got lots of places where I'd be happy to have monarch food take over and flourish. So if anybody offers you seed, steer some my way.
Be very careful not to mistake this plant for its foreign relative, C. nigrum, or black swallowwort. The two look very similar, and monarchs will be fooled into laying eggs on this interloper, but the caterpillars will die on it.

[John Beaulieu]

Here is the link to the MW photo of sand sine...

http://www.monarchwatch.org/milkweed/guide/cynan.htm

I too, would love to try to grow this plant. If it is native to southern regions, does anyone know how far north it will grow? I do know it is popular (with monarch folk) in Ohio, so hope it will be hardy in central Ontario too.

All milkweeds are usually listed as invaisive, but they are harder to grow from seed than you would expect. Like most perennials, they take years to get established and mature. I have sown many species and it is a slow process to create a plot that you can actually use as a source of cutting to feed caterpillars.

This year, I had a good crop of various milkweeds germinate, but my biggest problem was that insects were eating the seedlings to the ground. I am hoping the roots may resprout next year.

My most successful species from seed has been A. incarnata (Swamp Milkweed) followed by A. tuberosa (Butterfly Weed).

Although rare around here, I found swallowwort growing along a rail trail (former rail line, now a bike/walking path). Being curious, I pulled a small plant as well as gathered seed. The plant has existed for a couple years, not really getting much larger, and the seed never came up. So much for the invaisive habit! I figured that we would watch for any eggs that might get laid on this plant and bring them in to put them on proper milkweed. The monarchs never gave this swallowwort a second look.

John

[aphid]

Cynanchum laeve does very well here near Dayton, Ohio. It does it's best along fences where the fluff carried seed get's caught up with the fall leaves along the fences and germinates. Then is protected from lawn mowers because it's so close to the fence. I've noticed other milkweeds establish themselves in similar ways, but they never seem to mature along the fence like the blue vine does. I've found many seedlings in the middle of the yard and they generally annoy me when the attempt to clamor into the other plants for support, so I like them best if they have a support, namely my fence. When they are in the yard, they never get any bigger than a seedling sized plant due to being mowed with the yard. For this reason I don't consider them very invasive, but I have seen them in corn fields and very much doubt they do as much harm to crop production as common milkweed.

Cynanchum laeve stops growing during dry periods and picks back up at the next rain, more so than I've noticed other plants. It has average branching for a vine. I think I remembered three or four branches on my most mature vine last year. I've only rarely seen butterflies visit the flowers, but a lot of times seen flying insects like bees, wasps, and larger flies. I've never noticed a scent, but when the plant is relatively happy it has impressive deep green foliage.

If you want any seeds just email me and I will provide a address for you to send a self addressed envelope to send to. No trade necessary. sschaefer1 at woh dot rr dot com

[Mona Miller]

I started this last year from seed and it has really taken off this year. Also, I was rescuing some plants of common milkweed and this vine came up in the same pot. I am interested to see what the Monarchs will do when they find it.

[Mona Miller]

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CYLA
Here is the USDA map of where it is naturally occurring.

It is also known as Honeyvine.

[ChrysCook]

Yesterday, I found 3 dried semi-split milkweed-type pods on a dead vine. I'd like to plant the seeds if they're the sand or blue vine; I'd like to be sure they're not the invasive black sandwort. The actual seed is larger than any common milkweed seeds, and it seems from my research that the sandwort is small. Does anyone know for sure if/how I can identify the species from just the pods and seeds? The seeds are in excellent condition; they've been outside here through the Ohio winter, so they may sprout this year.

[Mona Miller]

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?sym ... 01_ahp.tif
Picture of the seeds of the sand vine.

This is a good gallery of pictures:
http://gallery.cs.umb.edu/gallery/main. ... mId=331693

But, other than the leaves, the seed pods and seeds look a lot like blue sand vine.

[ChrysCook]

Thanks, Mona. I found other pictures of the pods, too, and mine seem to be the sand blue vine. The black sandwort's pods are longer, skinnier, and shiny smooth, even when dry. I'm willing to send one of the pods to someone. He/she could independently corroborate my findings. The black sandwort is a serious problem, so I don't want to make a mistake. I've read that it can take over an entire field of goldenrod and that people in NY have abandoned horse pastures after failing to eradicate it! I could also plant a few in pots to see what the plant looks like. If I do this, is there a best way to store the rest of the seeds for next season? Is room temperature & dry ok? If someone wants one of the pods (with lots of seeds inside), please post here how you'd like me to get your mailing address. You could send it to me via a private message on MonarchWatch or directly to my email address.

[Mona Miller]

I have some pods of Blue Sand vine. Why don't I sent you one and then you won't have to take a chance of worrying about planting Black Swallow wort. I looked on the map and it is in OH, but not in VA, yet.

There is a way to email me privately on this website. We can exchange info and I'll send you out a pod. Click on my name on the right, it will take you to my profile.

http://www.garden.org/articles/articles ... how&id=844
Savvy Seed Saving