So few Monarchs this year.

[aphid]

I don't know if I've simply become more in tune to watching for monarch butterflies, eggs, and caterpillars this year, but for sure it just seems there aren't many around. Reading the other posts it seems others have come to the same conclusion. I seem to remember last year seeing monarch butterflies at the some of the common milkweed blooms in the neighborhood, but none this year.

I saw my first monarch fly over my house on May 24th, a saturday, and first eggs in my yard on a swamp milkweed plant on July 11th. I haven't been as fixed on finding eggs in the yard, simply because I have so much milkweed foliage now. Though I do look when I feel I have to get out and water. One thing I have looked for is leaf damage from caterpillars and it is probably too soon to be noticeable.

Last year, I did see monarch caterpillars being eaten by various predators at each stage of development, so I suppose I could have had caterpillars I never got to see. Anyhow, the clincher for me, this year, is that the only two butterflies and caterpillars I've seen in the yard were variegated fritillary and one type of the white butterflies (don't know what species). Oh, and a skipper that stopped once at a verbena plant.

As far as my butterfly gardening is concerned, I'm very discouraged... we had a nice sunny day all day yesterday with very little breeze and only one white butterfly visited the whole day. Oh, and I was inside studying, looking out. I have thought that possibly it is my choice of nectar flowers this year. My zinnia patch, I only planted purple prince this year, as opposed to 5 different colors last year. Since zinnias have broad flower heads I'm wondering if the lack of color variety is failing to attract the butterflies... any ideas or suggestions? .... hmm just thought of a way to test that... see if the local hobby shop still has plastic red zinnias and stick a bundle near my zinnia patch and see if I get a better response.

[aphid]

Since my last posting I have noticed one regular visitor, which I think it's a male. (Though it is likely at the end of its life cycle now.) It only visits the ('Purple Prince' zinnia) flowers randomly and never stays very long. In contrast to last year, when I had half the number of zinnias, but a mix of colors, the monarchs would visit each flower. This year I made sure that I grew single bloomed zinnias, semi double acceptable, but no fully double. Last year I would see the monarchs land on a fully double, look for a moment and jump to the next flower.

This makes me wonder what color are monarchs most attracted to, at least when zinnias are concerned.
I've seen other monarchs around town, and for sure have had one female stop by, cause I counted 5 caterpillars so far this season, far fewer than this time last year. I suppose there may have been fewer monarchs this year arriving in our location, but I'm getting the impression it is more my choice of nectar plants that have failed to attract them this year.

[Sandwhy]

I'm noticing fewer here in Chicago too... had my first monarch May (!) 5th, then nothing until June 5th. I've had only 1 or 2, rarely 3 at a time, in my garden. Things seem to be picking up, but still nothing spectacular. Other butterflies seem to have lower numbers too, though, compared to the past couple of years.

What other nectar plants do you have, Aphid? Here the butterflies seem to prefer buddleia, echinacea, tithonia, zinnia ("Will Rogers", a red-orange-pink, seems to pull them in - hummingbirds too!), and verbena bonariensis... and swamp milkweed when that is in bloom. It seems to be different everywhere though. Hope things pick up for you!!!

[aphid]

I'm glad you replied... I also noticed that the other types of
butterflies seemed scarce this year. Things have picked up, but
I think that has more to do with it being later in the season,
when in my novice opinion there should be more offspring. So,
even though it has picked up, there are still less than I expected.

Even though my expectations were for a lot more butterflies, it
has still been a positive experience this year.

I witnessed three monarchs at the zinnias last sunday. One was very
aggressive toward other butterflies and even the finches and bees.
At one point it chased one of the other monarchs around the yard.
I never knew monarchs could fly so fast! Easily they were faster
than any of the common birds.

One thing I have recognized is that this past year I put some
effort into researching what butterflies are in my area, so I
feel that I'm getting better recognizing the different ones
that visit. Maybe with an exception to the skippers and hairstreaks.

As for nectar plants, my main ones are Moss Verbena (glandularia
pulchella, aka verbena tenuisecta), verbena bonariensis,
Zinnia 'Purple Prince', cosmos bipinnatus, cosmos sulphureus,
two types of rudbeckia, purple coneflower,
butterfly weed (asclepias tuberosa), wingstem.

I never see any butterflies at the cosmos. I have seen monarchs
stop at them, but they never seem to stay. I broadcast the seed,
so the cosmos are tightly packed together, and possibly it doesn't
grow large enough to satisfy the large butterflies.

Last year I grew marigolds and would see the monarchs stop at them
but never sip nectar. I later figured out that they were double
bloom type... so I bought single bloomed this year, but didn't
get around to seeding them.

My zinnia patch is ~32 feet by 4 feet, seeded every 4 inches.
I would guess about 15% didn't germinate though.

I've got probably about 30 verbena bonariensis in bloom at
various locations in the yard. I've got about 40 butterfly weed.

I've also got swamp and common milkweeds, but only two
of the swamp milkweeds were old enough to bloom this year.

I went crazy with collecting seed for different types of milkweed.
Although I intend to start them, I think I will quit collecting them
for a specimen garden, since I don't think having more milkweed than I
have now will make any difference in attracting monarch butterflies.
Probably focus more on establishing more nectar plants and host
plants for other types of butterflies.

I tried Tithonias last year, but they grow so slowly in my HEAVY clay soil.
I haven't tried buddleia yet... I'm going to try to get the dwarf kind like
'peacock'. Is there a color that works best? I've seen white, purple, and blueish.
I'll have to look into that 'Will Rogers' Zinnia, do you remember where you got yours?

Monarch
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07181.JPG
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07188.JPG

Zebra Swallowtail on Moss Verbena
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07095.JPG

American Goldfinches that keeping eating my zinnia seeds.
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07142.JPG

skipper of some kind
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07145.JPG

Tiger Swallowtail
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07150.JPG

Black Swallowtail on Verbena Bonariensis
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07160.JPG

Orange Sulphur?
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07050.JPG

Comma or Question Mark
http://www.schaefer.dhcp.biz/albums/Gar ... C07041.JPG

Also, have pictures somewhere of a Hummingbird Clearwing Moth, Grey Hairstreaks,
and some other skippers I haven't tried to identify. I think I attracted
some spring and summer azures.

[Sandwhy]

Awesome photos! You are lucky to have so much room for plants. Mine are very... concentrated, shall we say? ;)

Also, the skipper in your photo looks like a Silver-Spotted. Haven't seen any of those around here this year either... :/

[aphid]

You must have a decent amount of area to garden with if you have buddleia bushes. I checked out your website and saw that you have at least two. I live on a corner so everything is there for the world to see. Otherwise if I had a backyard with any privacy, I would probably only plant in the backyard, cause I've made lots of stupid mistakes.

[iamfoxtrax]

I agree, you do have some awesome photos! I envy your zebra swallowtail.

We have noticed a marked decline in all types of butterflies this year. The last few years, it was so exciting to see several kinds of butterflies at once. This year, we have seen only one monarch in the last week and not many before that. I did get some pictures of a giant swallowtail yesterday. They have never been very common around here.

As for plants, I have purple & white Echinacea, pholx, red & yellow butterfly weed,swamp & red milkweed, liatris & several more kinds. My butterfly bushes didn't come up this year. I am trying to start some from my daughters. Good thingI gave her starts last year. I forgot to pre-start the Asclepias Curassavica this last sping, so we don't have them. They were always a surefire way to attract butterflies.

[SWAMPMILKWEED]

We have monarchs everyday in our little urban waystation and all but a few I think are my reared & released ones. We've had 2 females, very worn & faded, so I know they are not the newly emerged released ones. Good news is, I continue to find lots of eggs, 1st instars and several 3rd & 4th instars. And because we've had so much rain, the mw all still looks green & healthy so that's a plus. At Kitty Todd Preserve, monarch numbers are down by roughly 50% or more from last year's counts. And I am not seeing monarchs flying in the open by roads or fields etc anywhere. Some species are having an outrageous year - silver spotted skippers, spicebush swallowtails & hairstreaks, but others such as clouded & orange sulphurs and brushfoots are way down in numbers. Strange butterfly year...

Jamfoxtrax - your unknown skipper is a silver spotted and the last photo is a question mark.

[aphid]

Mona Miller has a post in a different forum, "Cool spring hurts butterfly population" (viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1493) where she references the article (http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_is ... 86349.html). I suppose this is part to blame for the fewer butterflies.

[Mona Miller]

If you love reading butterfly news, I get all my butterfly news from google, just click on news and sign up for alerts. I get alerts for "butterflies" and monarch butterflies". If you don't put butterflies after monarchs, you get news about kings.

[Sandwhy]

Excellent idea, Mona!

Sandy

[aphid]

SWAMPMILKWEED, how are you able to distinguish between Question Mark butterflies and Comma butterflies? Possibly my resources for the two are lacking, but the pictures I've seen of them are roughly the same. At least I can't tell them apart.

[SWAMPMILKWEED]

I tried to send a private message, since id'ing 2 different species on a monarch forum isn't exactly correct protocol, but can't figure out how to or it isn't working properly??? Anyway, the surest means of id'ing a question mark vs a comma, is by zeroing in on the white/silvery markings found on the ventral hindwing of both species. One looks like an inverted question mark and the other a comma. The question mark has a curved line w/a dot at the end. The comma only has a curved line. Commas are smaller, overall darker and more indentations along the outer margins. Hope this helps.

[SWAMPMILKWEED]

But on to monarchs --- yesterday at Kitty Todd Preserve, NW OH, Lucas Cnty, we counted at least 15 which is about 3x what we have been counting the past month or so. Peak of migration for this area is roughly 2 wks from now. Not sure if these are early arrivals from the north or a recent mini population explosion. I'll take any reason for seeing more of them!!!

[Mona Miller]

[quote="aphid"]SWAMPMILKWEED, how are you able to distinguish between Question Mark butterflies and Comma butterflies? Possibly my resources for the two are lacking, but the pictures I've seen of them are roughly the same. At least I can't tell them apart.[/quote]

http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/map?ds=36&_dcs=1
The reason could be that you actually have two species of commas and one question mark.
Question Mark (Polygonia interrogationis)
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/spec ... te=39*Ohio
Eastern Comma (Polygonia comma)
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/spec ... te=39*Ohio
Gray Comma (Polygonia progne)
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/spec ... te=39*Ohio

To identify any butterfly click on your state, county, then look at the records, there is a section on identification which will give you identifying marks. There is a section on the forum to ask other questions that are not related to Monarchs called "Off Topic".

[Sandwhy]

Here's another tool for separating Question Marks from the 6 or so species of Commas - the forewing has a little black dash above the three dots (see below).

[attachment=0]qm.jpg[/attachment]

To differentiate between the remaining Commas, however, takes a little more practice and study. Geographically here in Chicago we *usually* would only get Question Marks and Eastern Commas - at least as far as I can tell. ;)

[Mona Miller]

http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/map
Put your state into the map search. Then, do a county search. I think I saw three species of commas for IL.

[Sandwhy]

Hey Mona - yeah, I've had that website bookmarked for quite a while now; it's a great resource! Like I said, we *usually* get only Eastern Commas. Gray commas too, from what I've heard, but I believe they are much rarer here where I am (north of Chicago). :)

[Nana of 5]

Help. I just found 3 monarch caterpillars on my swamp milkweed plant. IS this normal? Will they say around all winter in cocoons? I live in the southern part of PA.

Thanks
Nana of 5

[Sandwhy]

Hi Nana! Monarchs don't overwinter as chrysalises, like many butterflies do (and moths, as cocoons). Hopefully the larvae will pupate/eclose successfully and the 3 butterflies will migrate south. :D

Generally the lifespan of an adult monarch (butterfly form)in the summer is about 2 weeks, until this time of year (late summer/fall) when the adults live for about 9 months. These are the ones that migrate. When they eclose (emerge from the chrysalis) and are in reproductive diapause until the following spring, when they start reproducing again and migrating back northwards. Quite a life. Hope yours make it!

Sandy

[Mona Miller]

Actually, moths make cocoons and butterflies make chrysalis.

http://www.monarchwatch.org/rear/index.htm
Rearing Monarchs

http://www.monarchwatch.org/tagmig/index.htm
Migration

[aphid]

Sandwhy,

Funny you should bring that up. Was thinking I might track the last two caterpillars if they make chrysalis and mail them south. :)

Though as I remember from last year there weren't any monarch caterpillars (or chrysalis) around when the first frost hit. Though there were black swallowtail caterpillars that were killed by the frost.

So far this year I've counted 11 caterpillars, 1 confirmed killed by a predator, 1 confirmed turned butterfly. Last year I counted 30+ caterpillers, 4 confirmed killed, 8 confirmed butterflies. Also, this year I have twice the number of nectar plants and twice the milkweed foliage. Though, I have noticed a greater variety of butterflies.

[Mona Miller]

You have to have a permit to mail butterflies across state lines. Luckily, I know someone who lives in Virginia Beach and the butterflies hitched a ride back home with them. I actually sent some that way in November last year.

http://www.forbutterflies.org/farmingusdapermits.html
Butterfly Permits

[Sandwhy]

Wow Aphid, nice "keeping track" of the caterpillars! How do you know they were "confirmed" killed by predators? It's like you have a little CSI Monarch going on there! I can never find the larvae on the MW plants after seeing them once - they are so good at hiding.

Nice that you have a great variety. Numbers for all were just down for us here this year. Well, there's always next year! :D

[Mona Miller]

In my yard, I often witness the predators killing the caterpillars or see what is left of them after the predators are finished. Wasp cutting them into pieces, assassin bugs/spiders sucking the life out of them, eggs empty, caterpillars hanging limp, etc. It is heartbreaking.

I was scoping Monarchs for OE this morning. These were pupae that I had brought in from outside. Of the 6 butterflies, 3 had OE. I had to put them to sleep in the freezer. That is heartbreaking, too. But, if I release them with heavy OE they will infect the other butterflies.

[aphid]

Sandwhy,

Here at "CSI Monarch Waystation:Fairborn" I tend to keep tabs on the success of the garden. I consider myself a gardening novice, so I want to see how well it does at attracting the butterflies and figure what I can do about making the yard a better attraction for our fluttery clients. Last year I gave up counting after I reached 30 monarch caterpillars, but continued to keep tabs on the foliage since they were quickly stripping the plants I did have. I expected to not to have to have to keep tabs this year since last year was way beyond my expectations for my waystation participation. However, the lack of butterflies in general, and monarchs in particular, got me back to walking around the yard again this year. As I mentioned earlier, I think part of the reason I've noticed a greater variety of butterflies is partly due to me having spent time reading up on the different butterflies in my area and being able to recognize the difference between the similar looking species, and not that there are anymore around. I have bought seeds for many other host plants, but haven't gotten around to starting them.

Things I've experienced that I hope to figure out include: does distance of milkweed from the most visited nectar plants a factor in getting the females to lay eggs on it? Or do monarchs have preferences on the species of milkweed they choose to lay on. Last year I started swamp milkweed from seed and it got the majority of caterpillar eggs, it was the closest to the zinnia patch. Next year, hopefully I'll have time, to start some nectar annuals next to the other milkweeds in the yard to see if the egg distribution is more even. Also, I've already mentioned color as a factor for the yard at large.

As for lost caterpillars, I've seen them eaten by spiders, and seen a soldier bug (or whatever it was) sucking the insides of a caterpillar (including just yesterday). I've never seen robber flies or wasps carrying off monarch caterpillars but I've seen them with other caterpillars. Also, there is a black wasp with a purple haze that is always carrying spiders back to it's nest (I think it is solitary). I've never seen a caterpillar egg being eaten. I really only look for 3rd instar and larger, anything smaller and it is just by chance I saw them.

I agree the caterpillars are very adept at hiding. I hadn't seen any caterpillars on the butterfly weed this year. It led me to be careless about not checking the grass around them before mowing. Its just my luck that after mowing, yesterday, I noticed a 5th instar eating away at one of the plants as I was pushing the mower back to the garage. I can't help but think I mulch mowed one. I've wondered what the Monarch Waystation guide meant by providing cover for the caterpillars. Since the caterpillars regularly leave the milkweed during the day and hide on other foliage I presume it means to leave a few weeds.

Mona,

Thanks for the info about the permit. Might send them an email, seems silly they would prevent wild grown monarch caterpillars given a free ride out of the frost zone without a permit.

Is OE that bacteria or fungus? I didn't attempt to create a caterpillar cage this year for fear of spreading infection. Though I had gotten a mini-greenhouse (shelving unit with plastic cover) that doesn't work well here in the spring, and thought to maybe put clothe around it and stick some caterpillars in next year. Though the gardening takes all my free time, so I don't see getting around to trying it anyway.

[Mona Miller]

OE is a protozoan.

http://www.monarchparasites.org/
Click on OE for info

Those are the government rules. I don't enforce them. Just advise people when I see them mentioning transporting butterflies/moths across state lines. I have permits for MD, PA, MA, WVA, etc. I am not a commercial butterfly farmer. I only raise for education/conservation.

[Sandwhy]

CSI Monarch Waystation - LOL!

(cue theme music)

Seriously. Have you considered (or, DO you?) logging your data onto MLMP (Monarch Larva Monitoring Project)? Sounds like you keep such excellent track/numbers of the goings-ons in your garden - your info would be appreciated! Plus, it's neat to see year-to-year how things change on their graphs/charts. :)

http://mlmp.org/

I started monitoring with hopes of really keeping track of things the way you do - unfortunately other things have taken over my life and I don't "monitor" as much as I would ultimately like to.

Sandy
PS, this is from the above website:

"More specific questions we are addressing include:

How do larval monarch population densities fluctuate throughout the breeding season in different parts of North America?
At what larval stages does the highest mortality occur?
What is the net reproductive potential for summer breeding monarchs?
What plant qualities affect female monarch host plant choice and how does this vary between milkweed species?
What is the timing of movement of reproductive monarchs throughout their breeding range?
How does monarch recruitment vary with larval habitat size and degree of disturbance?
To answer these questions, we have recruited volunteers to conduct weekly monarch and milkweed surveys, measuring per plant densities of monarch eggs and larvae and milkweed quality. The results of these volunteers' efforts will aid us in conserving monarchs and their threatened migratory phenomenon, and advance our understanding of butterfly ecology in general."

[aphid]

Sandwhy,

Thanks for the info on the site. I wasn't aware of the project.
Looks like they only require weekly data, which is good for me since I usually get outside twice a week, except maybe during vacation.

I was looking at your garden photos on your website, again. I'm thinking you have equal or more square feet garden than me. Planning on posting anymore/newer photos of the garden?

Oh and flying cat is cool too!

[froglegs]

Aphid,
Thanks for this bit of info, I posted earlier unaware of this fact.
"Since the caterpillars regularly leave the milkweed during the day and hide on other foliage I presume it means to leave a few weeds."
I estimate 2/3 to 3/4 could not be found during the day, but I did see one on an adjacent coneflower.

[Mona Miller]

I think the caterpillars leave the milkweed to molt and avoid predation. I've watched the flies and wasp patrolling the milkweed leaves and stems during the day. The caterpillars also hang out on the lower stems of the milkweed, too.

[aphid]

froglegs,

I agree with Mona that they leave to avoid predation. I'm posting an update to my caterpillar behaviour observations to a thread I started two years ago titled:

"How to encourage the caterpillars to stay near the milkweed?"
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=855

[Mona Miller]

There are still some eating during the day, but most are hidden under the leaves. Some very boldly are still right at the top of the milkweed in front of the birds and other predators. A good way to find them is to note frass down on lower leaves. Also, I've noticed some of the tiny first instars right in the top of the milkweed. I think they love those tender new leaves up there so after eating their egg and eating a few holes, they climb to the top.

I actually found some 2nd instars in my new seedlings that I just planted this fall. We get frost pretty late (usually the end of October) so I started some tropical milkweed in large tubs for the late Monarchs that come through. I ended up transferring them to other pots of milkweed because they were eating the heads off all the seedings.

Even with weeds all around them, some of the Monarchs will venture even farther away. I had one that climbed up on to my deck and made its chrysalis on a tiki torch. Luckily, I don't use them anymore. They are just there for decoration. That was a good 15 ft. away and about 10 ft. high.

[dioxindi]

Hi-I'm a novice. I live in Midland,Michigan on a busy street but have a deep yard with many flowers and MILKWEED (with pink flowers). I don't know how many Monarchs I saw last summer (4 maybe) but I did get a good picture of one on the milkweed in my backyard. Problem-the milkweed is spreading everywhere. Last year I had to start pulling it out as it traveled from the side and back yard to the front yard. It was crowding out other things I want.
Any ideas? I'd like to have someone who shares my love of these beautiful butterflies take some of the milkweed.
I also grow a garden and I don't use chemicals in the garden or lawn.
I love watching the Monarchs but there are other plants and trees I don't want to lose.I'd like to figure this out before the growing season.
Thanks-Diane Hebert

[Mona Miller]

You must have common milkweed, it runs under the ground and pops up all over the place. You could plant some annual milkweeds and other perennial milkweeds that don't run wild. Two perennials are swamp and butterfly weed. The tropicals is Asclepias curassavica (Tropical Milkweed).

http://www.monarchwatch.org/milkweed/guide/index.htm
Milkweed Photo Guide

http://www.monarchwatch.org/forums/view ... f=7&t=1439
Monarch Watch Forum -- Sources of Milkweed seeds

The milkweeds serve as both hosts (what the caterpillars eat) and nectar sources.