Monarch Watch Forums

by **Orangeaid** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:17 am

Ever since the 4th of July the monarch presence in my area has picked up tremendously ! I think the Monarchs have rebounded well in my area from the early spring cold and wet conditions. This should all bode well for the southern migration this fall. Since July started I have raised and released over 100 Monarchs and i have over 60 in chrysalis form with approx 150 cats and 60 or so eggs. There are plenty of eggs and monarchs to be found and at the moment everywhere i look iam seeing monarchs all over.I hope this continues into the tagging period and i can use all my tags again this year.

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by **Orangeaid** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:33 am

by **crewsin** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:56 am

I live in Egg Harbor Twp., NJ where I have several different types of milkweed growing. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a monarch or an egg this year. In fact, there have only been a few black swallow tail butterflies. At this point I'm very worried.

by **Orangeaid** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:15 pm

Wow ! thats a total contradiction to what iam experiencing at present. I have so much going on i cant keep up with work and monarchs .Everytime i have been out for the last month to replenish my milkweed supply iam bringing in easily 30-60 new eggs. Just the other day on LBI i must of counted 20 Monarchs on my way back from B. Haven . Try coming to the north a little and do some milkweed scouting and you will definately hit some egg action.

by **Orangeaid** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:40 am

I went out for milkweed on friday and couldnt help but bring home over 120 fresh eggs and over 30 1st instar cats. There were eggs everywhere and on every plant that i looked at. I saw 5 or 6 Monarchs laying eggs around the field of milkweed . Things are starting to get hectic and fun now. I just have to decide when to start tagging. Maybe the monarchs that emerge from these eggs will be the Migrators i will just have to wait and see.

by **crewsin** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:46 pm

Hurray! The first monarch appeared on Thursday. She was ragged with a ripped wing; she rested on tree branches and ferns in between short bursts of flight. She did lay eggs on several plants. My question is how do I protect these eggs from predators? What do you have set up at home?

by **Mona Miller** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:46 am

search.php
There is a search feature at the top on the right on the main page. Search on "cage"

http://www.monarchwatch.org/rear/index.htm
Rearing Monarchs

http://www.monarchwatch.org/rear/cages.htm
Ideas for Cages

by **tarheel** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:55 am

Am posting this as a response to crewsin.
I came up with an idea, & had planned to post, & it may have been posted b4, but I haven't seen it.
When the eggs are brought inside, always separate the eggs that are 2 or more on a single leaf, cutting carefully with sharp scissors, leaving as much leaf as you can safely for each cat, this will be their 1st mw meal. This will prevent them from eating their siblings or 'leaf-mate' if they were laid by different 'Mamas'

I have taken the bottom half of an egg carton, with the 12 little cups, the plastic carton, not the cardboard, as the cardboard breaks down when wet; placed moist paper toweling in each little cup; one paper towel may be sufficient,rotated for the most coverage; tucked down in cups w/ fingers, (but I always use the selct-a-size towels & have used 1 1/2) , & I made a sleeve to fit snugly over it with toile, or tulle, whichever spelling you prefer, here in the South is often tulle,) & place the eggs you have collected,into the individual cups, on the pieces of leaves, 1 egg per cup, on top of a clean damp fresh leaf for each egg, & slipped the bottom half of the egg carton into this sleeve. If the tulle doesn't fit snugly enough to cover securely each individual cup, a straight pin, thumb tac or push pin can be safely used to keep it down.

This I place on a tray on my kitchen bar, (my own personal way of doing things), this way I can monitor the progress of the eggs & the birthing of the cats. Then, as they are born, I decide when it is time to move them to a 'community container', again my personal way & term. Keep the leaves replenished as needed, then in a day or so, you can transfer the babies to another container of your choosing; each have their own personal preference of container type; plastic Glad ware containers, plastic shoe boxes, which I use sometimes, or covers from cheesecakes or such,(using the cover for the contaner) from local deli is my personal preference, lining the bottom with moist paper towels, which turn up at the sides for easy removal. I always make about 3-4 layers of moist paper towels, rotating the different layers so the corners are easier for me to find. (As I come to the last moist paper towel, I moisten 3-4 more & replenish, on this cleaning. (If there happens to be any 'staining' that has gone through to the one below, I toss that one also. This way, I can lift out the paper towel on top, holding the cata, frass & left-over leaf bits, sit it on my tray, & place fresh leaves on the waiting clean paper towel below.

Then I place fresh, rinsed, moist leaves around on the clean paper towel & place a baby on a new leaf, dispose of the waste (frass) & any uneaten leaf 'bits', & re-cover with the tulle, secured with a large rubber band, or the bottom of the container, now used as the top, with the center cut out & tulle, hot glued in, securely. Some prefer to pat the leaves dry, is personal pref, again. I love to see their little heads going back & forth getting the moisture. Again, your personal pref.

I always try to clean 'before any cats start wandering', so, the possibility of them wandering off while doing this process it isn't a problem. Just in case, I have netting picnic-plate covers to place over them while I get the dirty paper towel disposed of.

I have several of the 'bamboo & tulle fan-fold picnic plate protectors' that I use for community feeding also, using appropriate sized plastic plant saucers as a liner, or plastic plates & using same method of cleaning. You will find your own personal preference in containers, whatever works best for you, there are some very good suggestions & ideas in earlier posts. You will also find the number of cats you are comfortable with in each 'community feeding container' as you get further into the process, personally I decrease the number in a community feeder as they increase in size.

You will also find your own personal method of transferring or handling the cats, whatever is comfortable for you; some use brushes, bamboo skewers, q-tips & other methods. I have long, sturdy natural home-grown nails, & transfer & handle them that way, always washing thouroughly before & after. The cats 'scoop up' on my ring & middle finger, secured by my thumbnail, if needed. My nails are very long & always smooth, & I have handled thousands of cats a year, never damaging one. I also have disposable blue plastic latex-free gloves always handy, that I use when needed. I think all will agree that one of the most important things, besides keeping the cats safe, is keeping their enivronment clean, & frequent removal of the frass (waste from the cats, if you are not familiar with the term), is an important thing for their safety & vital for their health.

I personally refer to the waste as 'castings' since I use earthworms in my soil, for the aeration factor & their 'castings' are a great constant fertilizer. It is a local Southern thing I have always done, they are plentiful here, & a natural way to constantly fertilize. They can be gathered early mornings & late evenings, here in our area, moving about on the concrete driveways & walkways in our yards, (but as I grow in containers, they often find their way into my soil).

There are some that take cuttings of the mw, placed in water in different typed of containers, later in the instar stages & placing the cats on them, making a tent-roll-down-hill of paper towels or some other material, where the frass rolls down the 'hill', for easier cleaning. I ran very short of mw one year & had to resort to being conservative with leaves, so it depends on your personal 'supply & demand' on your method, later in the growth cycle.Leaves or stem cuttings, is up to you.

This is simply a suggestion, & somethings I, personally do, & not to be mistaken as a lesson or instructions of any kind. We each learn new things, it seems, each season, some good, some not so good. So when I visit the forums, it is like going grocery shopping; some things "I take off the shelf"
& make note of for later use, or use immediately, & some I 'just leave be."

Wishing you the very best with your new 'charges' & lots of fun & love. Each season has its tears for me, tears of sorrow & joy, but the good always outweigh the bad. Personally, I simply pray for guidance, wisdom & strength to care for my babies.

God Bless you in all that you do & whatever you encounter, Have a beautiful Butterfly Day...tarheel

by **Mona Miller** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:05 am

Search with "cages" with an "s".

by **crewsin** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:55 am

Thank you all for the help.

by **Orangeaid** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:03 pm

Hi Crewsin. You can make the whole process of Monarch rearing as complicated or easy as you want. If you just want to rear just a few eggs and cats get yourself a metal tomato plant cage and wrap it with a fine black netting .You should also get some type of container to catch the waste.( Clean out the bottom as needed ) Put a small vase filled with water and place some milkweed stalks in it. Put your cats on the leaves and watch them grow. I have 2 large handmade wooden cages that can handle large quantities of Monarch cats and milkweed stalks. Just try to have fun with it and try to learn as much as you can before you get started because there are a lot of scenarios that will come up that would have you srcatching your head with out a solid foundation.

by **tarheel** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:02 am

Hi again Crewsin, Was thankful for your PM that I wasn't mistaken in your original question about coming in the house with Monarch Eggs, not cats, & wanting to know what to do to protect them. I was trying to help you avoid the heartache of my first experience of bringing in 8 eggs on leaves, placing them in a container together, to wake up 1 morning with 4 new babies,crawling around munching on everything available & wondering where the other 4 were (they must have birthed the prior evening by the looks of things.) my RN terminology follows me to this day. While the cats aren't predators, they will eat their leafmates, & that was my whole purpose in making sure yours were safe from one another. I remember using old wet & stretched-out panty hose for the egg carton sleeve. I was trying to help you handle a situation with simplicity & whatever you had around the house & should have mentioned the p-hose rather than toile.

Didn't mean to make it sound complicated, am glad it was what you were looking for. Only y'day after I had a busy F Monarch flying around oviposting, told DH he needed to go to store & get some eggs, he looked at me puzzled, knowing we are not big egg-eaters, especially in the hot weather, then he realized what was going on. I had just brought in my stacking tables in, to the solarium from the storage building, remembering I set up different areas of the solarium for the different instar stages, he replied,"Oh, it's time to start the nursery!"

It is a fun thing & you can use whatever is handy. I started out with 2-3 different sizes of pavilions from bug lore, then found some hampers from wal-mart, much larger & just right for all instar stages, & had the poly fabric covers replaced with clear plastic; ending up this season with the large butterfly terrarium ordered on-line, so the sky is the limit, depending what your needs are, your budget, etc; there are numerous things around the house that can be used, & I didn't think at this point, you were looking for 'enclosures' for your eggs.

I counted up the days from when you saw your female, (last Thurs.& figured that at this point,4-5 days later, depending on when she was possibly oviposting out of your sight) probably with the eggs that you had, you had babies that were real close to being born. So, I assumed you needed something for the immediate situation. The pantyhose idea was what I used the first time I did the 'egg carton nursery', but I have this thing about wanting to 'see everything', & these pantyhose weren't see- through enuf 4 me & being a retired RN, wanting things 'looking nice', as long as I can, until the nursery is over-flowing, I opted 4 the tulle, is cheap here & usually get several yards at the time each year just to have on hand. Also green Velcro tape is always handy to keep on hand, is reuseable & many times can use that to secure thing that large rubber bands put too much pressure on & warp out of shape & holds in times when scotchtape won't adhere snugly enough. Each new season, I take inventory, see what I need to re-plenish, & what I need new. Most things can be re-used if properly cleaned.

This year, am sorry I threw out some of my nursery supplies. So first order of the day for DH is eggs, for my eggs! (Am seeing some buds on my Giant MW Tree, & am hoping for seedpods, will be sure to send you & your kids some). love to all

by **Orangeaid** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:02 pm

Obviously you would want to have the cats emerge from their eggs first( preferably inside with one of the many methods mentioned on this site ) before you would put them in the cage with other cats to possibly be eaten.

by **Mona Miller** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:59 pm

I sort the caterpillars to instar. I'd never put a first instar in with a 3rd through 5th. Those guys don't see very well and eat everything in their path even pupae at times.

by **crewsin** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:17 am

Thank you all for the advice. I'm going out to collect the eggs. I'll keep you posted.

by **Jeanine L. Shaffer** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:48 pm

I'm so glad to see that many of you out there are seeing lots of Monarchs. That is not the case here in my part of Tn. Last spring I had an overabundance of eggs and cats (over 300). Right now I only have about 75 and not all from my yard. I have seen an orange bodied wasp with black wings eating a 1" Monarch cat two different times. Whenever I'm outside I see them patrolling the Butterfly Weed looking for Cats. Is anyone else having this problem? Does anyone know what kind of wasp this is and how to control it? I have managed to kill 3 of them but there are more out there. I have purchased 300 tags and usually don't have enough but if things continue as they are, I'll be lucky to use them up.

Butterfly Lady from Tn. MWS 381

by **Mona Miller** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:19 pm

http://bugguide.net/index.php?q=search& ... rch=Search
Here I searched for brown, wasp.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/6722
This is what has beening eating mine.

http://bugguide.net/index.php?q=search& ... rch=Search
Also the European Paper Wasp

http://bugguide.net/index.php?q=search& ... rch=Search
Yellow jackets, too.

And, the Tachinids (flies):
http://bugguide.net/index.php?q=search& ... rch=Search

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