rearing swallowtails or luna moths?

[allstarinstar]

I'm just curious if anyone has reared other butterflies asides from monarchs? It'd be pretty cool to rear some black swallow tails or luna moths (the huge beautiful lime green moths), but I don't know what their larval or cocoon stages look like, what they eat, where to find them, or how they should be reared...anyone have tips or stories?

[Gwynne]

I raised some black swallow tails this summer as well as monarchs. I started with the monarchs in the middle of June but didnt start with the black swallowtails till later. I called nursery after nursery till I found one that raised their own parsley and dill. They even had a caterpillar on one. I asked them to put the caterpillar aside for me, kind of sounds silly like I am purchasing linens or something and want the correct size put aside! When I got there the next day, the caterpillar had crawled off, but I got two plants with four caterpillars. I have been back there several times this summer and always come back with parsley and caterpillars till lats week and the gentleman said it was getting towards the end of the season for black swallowtails. BSTs eat parsley, dill, carrots, and fennel. I can not tell you anything about lunar moths. By the way, butterflies make chrysalises and fly during the day and moths make cocoons and fly at night.

[F3]

I'd LIKE to find a Luna for rearing, or any Saturniid for that matter. Dang things are so big they'll carry away small children and pets.

[aggscott]

Funny this post is here this morning! I just found two Black Swallowtail cats yesterday at a busy park. There they were eating away on some wild dill, but the dill was small and it was almost gone. I couldn't leave them there-it just didn't feel right. So I took them both and as soon as I got home I started to research them.

It's very possible I could have them over the winter and they won't come out until Spring.

Aggie

[Gwynne]

I had two eclose on the same day. Only one emerged. I had four that pupated after that. This morning one of them emerged. Either something is wrong with the one that didnt emerge or I might have a guest for the winter!

[JoAnn_B]

I am raising Eastern Swallowtails and I just released a hummingbird moth.

I found the swallowtail cats on my Flat leaf parsley and Rue plants. I found the moth cat on a penta plant. Talk about a big cat! I have another hummingbird moth in cocoon. Waiting to see on that one. It was younger than the first by several days.

Thw swallowtails are fun. I just released 2 butterflies today. Some seem to have a cycle of about a month, while a few of the earlier batch are still in crysalis. I don't know if they will emerge next spring or never. I have released 9 this summer - 3 in the first batch of 5 and the rest in the second batch of 13. I still have 9 in cryslis.

I just purchased two pipevine plants. Both have swallowtail eggs. I saw the female pipvine swallowtail lay them at the nursery - so I had to buy them. Will let you know how that goes. The cats in the book I have are very strange looking.

I cannot find as much in the internet about swallowtails to know why some emerge right away and some do not.

I am not even sure all mine were eastern. Some looked like desert swallowtails.

Good luck with the swallotails.

[MILW]

I knocked this Antheraea polyphemus caterpillar out of a birch tree in our front yard (image). I'd been finding gigantic frass on our driveway in a very small area maybe 4' wide, so I tied a stick on some rope and threw it up into the birch. After some 10 minutes of shaking, a neighbor came over to see what was up, and I suddenly saw this cat on the ground only inches from the neighbors foot! He was nearly mushed before I even knew it! We fed him birch for about 4 days, then he made his cocoon while hanging out on our porch.

So my advice is, follow the frass!

Oh yes, I also watched a BST laying eggs on my dill, and collected them before the ants could!

ps for Luna moth caterpillarpix, check bugguide.net out!

[F3]

Wish I had your luck, MILW.
There's plenty of host trees around here but none in our yard.

[MILW]

It was lucky, I've been seeing big frass for the past 3-4 years; last year I found the remains of polyphemus adult and the year before, the cat got a cecropia just after it eclosed. My plan (assuming this cocoon is a female) is to cage it in the spring and try to catch males attracted to it; then let it lay a bunch of eggs in captivity. The other thought is to look closely at the trees after all the leaves have fallen- the polyphemus cocoons remain attached up in the tree, so there might be a chance of spotting one.

[Jim]

My plan (assuming this cocoon is a female) is to cage it in the spring and try to catch males attracted to it; then let it lay a bunch of eggs in captivity.

If your curiosity gets the best of you can can carefully cut open the silken sheath to gain access to the pupa and determine the sex of the developing moth by the antennae pattern on the pupal case - wide, feathery antennae indicate a male and narrow (but still feathery) antennae indicate a female.

We've got about 50 cecropia cocoons here now raised from eggs this spring.

Good Luck!

[MILW]

Thanks Jim! this may be going off-topic, but what projects are you raising cecropias for?

cheers- Scott
(ps I definitely will check this pupa!)

[Jim]

what projects are you raising cecropias for?

No specific projects...for fun and for education/display at our spring Open House.

[MILW]

I wish I worked with you all! Maybe I can make it out for the Spring event; we'll be camping this weekend (and hopefully tagging if weather is good!) so can't make it to the open house. Good luck with it!
-Scott

[Gwynne]

I am raising Eastern Swallowtails and I just released a hummingbird moth.

I found the swallowtail cats on my Flat leaf parsley and Rue plants.

I am not even sure all mine were eastern. Some looked like desert swallowtails.

Good luck with the swallotails.

Jo Ann, I will have to look up hummingbird moths. I have never heard of them but they sound fascinating. So do all the others you mention.

If you found caterpillars on your parsley, they would be Black Swallowtails. I have wanted to raise Eastern Swallowtails and there are tons of them around here, but their hosts are trees. Were the butterflies you released black?

[Gwynne]

I knocked this Antheraea polyphemus caterpillar out of a birch tree in our front yard (image). I'd been finding gigantic frass on our driveway in a very small area maybe 4' wide, so I tied a stick on some rope and threw it up into the birch. After some 10 minutes of shaking, a neighbor came over to see what was up, and I suddenly saw this cat on the ground only inches from the neighbors foot! He was nearly mushed before I even knew it! We fed him birch for about 4 days, then he made his cocoon while hanging out on our porch.

So my advice is, follow the frass!

Oh yes, I also watched a BST laying eggs on my dill, and collected them before the ants could!

ps for Luna moth caterpillarpix, check bugguide.net out!

What a lucky find! About the caterpillar, not the frass, of course, though you do make a good point. Lately I have started looking for that too!

Please post pictures when he emerges.

[JoAnn_B]

The Hummingbird moth literally flies and feeds like a hummingbird. It is not the prettiest moth. While still in the coccon, it will move - twitch violently, if touched. Scared me so much I jumped and screamed! I plan not to touch it again.

My monarchs with the bad wings are still alive. I feed them gatorade everyday and let them out for some fluttering around. One - who had well shaped wings, but could not fly, finally could. She flew around the room pretty well, so I released her today and she flew off.

Since these 7 with the eclosing issues and deformed wings, I have had 6 healthy ones so I am not sure why this one bunch had the problem.

8 more pupated the last few days and a few more are in the J shape. I still have about 20 feeding away on the milkweed. I had to buy more again! All my plants were stripped bare.

These guys are hardy eaters. But very cute. I love the way they perk up when new food arrives. Too cute!

[Gwynne]

I have had a bunch with deformed wings. One group of eggs I got in one place had a lot of problems. The butterflies were falling right out of their chrysalises and I would try to help them cling to something but they couldnt and I would just watch them helplessly. My last group I had 23 out of 26 healhty ones. I lost a lot of the caterpillars and chrysalises of the ones I got from the field early on. Of the ones that eclosed, most were healthybut one had deformed wings. Some looked like they could fly but couldnt. Some of them did eventually fly off the next day while two fell off their plants and died while I wasnt around. I even had a dwarf butterfly, something I had never seen or heard of before. The wings were 1/4 inch long while the thorax was full. That was very sad. I must have seen every deformity there is But it is so rewarding when a butterfly you fed for days and watched as a chrysalis soars off with a strong, steady, flight. From all the assorted problems I have had, people might think I have only had a few survive, but I have released about fifty healhty monarchs.

[madamebutterfly]

Is anyone still finding black swallowtail cats? I've never seen one, and am curious now....my local Home Depot and Lowe's don't have any herbs left, but perhaps the garden places might. Like I need another project!!!! Help!!!!

Gwynne, I'm glad to hear you have had some healthy ones!!! Keep focusing on them, that's what it's all about.....

[JoAnn_B]

After my bout with the deformed winged butterflies, I continue to release healthy ones - two beutiful males today. Those were the last of that batch. I have had quite a few pupate the this past week and have several large cats that should begin soon. Maybe the bad wings were a fluke. I hope.

I have reared the black swallowtails, but have no new cats recently - have seen the butterflies flying around. I only had 2 batches all summer. Not like the monarchs that just keep coming. I have some pipevine cats, but could not find them today. They just hatched a few days ago. I hope they are just hiding on the vine. It is pretty dense and large. Lots of places to hide. Once they are bigger, I can probably find them better.

Good luck with the herbs. They seem to like the flat leaf (aka Italian) paresly best over dill or rue.

[Gwynne]

I would not go to a Home Depot or Lowe's, you just dont know what was sprayed on those plants. I called over ten places before finding anyone who sold herbs and grew them themselves and didnt use pesticides. The last two times I went to the nursery, I didnt find any caterpillars and they said it is late in the season to be finding them. If you do, they are probably goingt to over winter.

Joann, they do seem to like the flat leaf best. I had one parsley plant that was 1/3 flat leaf and 2/3 curly. The caterpillars rejected the curly parsley so I went back to the nursery to get more flat leaf parsley. I found three more caterpillars, two on a single curly parsley plant and one on flat leaf. I bought three plants, two flat leaf and one curly. I only took the curly because I figured since the two had been eating it all along and were pretty big, they must obviously like it. Right? Logicial? There were flat leaf plants there and they stayed on the curly parsley. From the amount of frass, I knew they had been there for awhile. Well, dont try to use logic with caterpillars. The three plants were all in my plastic tote and I snuck them into work. One of the caterpillars on the curly parsley spotted the flat parsley and moved over to that one. I put him back. He moved back. It was a tug of war with him winning of course and me with an extra plant!

[JoAnn_B]

Interesting - mine did not like the curley leaf at all. The eggs were laid on the flat leaf and rue only. The curley leaf was right next to the flat leaf.

Go figure. I kept running out of parsley so I went to Whole Foods and bought some already cut organic parsely. That worked great!

[madamebutterfly]

Thanks for the input!!! I appreciate the HD/L advice too, haven't thought to ask about pesticides, I've always used my own plants for food whenever possible. Have a good week all!!

[Gwynne]

Yestererday I was reading some of the other forums and other people say they go to home depots and lowes when they are running low on milkweed. I have heard horror stories but I have heard that not all use pesticides. I dont know how to advise you after hearing people do go there. I read if there are aphids, then there are no chemicles. I dont know.

[butterflysweeti_cdn]

I mostly raise Monarchs, but have raised 6 swallowtails in the past. I currently have 2 at home right now. They go into their chrysalis in September & don't emerge until May. It is really cool.

(I live in Ontario, Canada)

[MILW]

If your curiosity gets the best of you can can carefully cut open the silken sheath to gain access to the pupa and determine the sex of the developing moth by the antennae pattern on the pupal case - wide, feathery antennae indicate a male and narrow (but still feathery) antennae indicate a female.

Well, I opened the polyphemus cocoon up today- it was very active, squirming its abdomen around and around. Looks pretty clearly to be male!

cheers- Scott

[RozieMozie]

id like to try to rear swallow tails next yr ... i saw both a male and female this yr on my cat. adventures

anyone have advice on the best host plant to plant? ... i was thinkn bout dill ... is there a host plant tht thy seem to favor over the others?

[Lindabird]

I've been raising Black Swallowtails for 3 years now. I only have parsley planted for them. They like dill.....and I think carrot tops and rue. You might check that to be sure. I probably have at least 50 eggs out there right now. There were more, but something to to them before they hatched. These eggs will form their chrysalis and most likely hibernate until spring. I had four Swallowtails come out today, but it's starting to get late.

I've really enjoyed the Swallowtails. I haven't had near the problems with them as I have with Monarchs. Last year I brought them in as eggs, but this year I don't have the room so I wait til they are small cats. They seem a little easier to raise to me, but the Monarch is awesome to watch.

If you plant dill or parsley next spring, I would bet my life you will have Swallowtails. Good Luck!

Linda

[Andrew]

I reared some Cecropia cats from ova in early spring.

Wont have moths till this coming spring though.

[Gwynne]

Beautiful pictures. What is their host plant?

[Andrew]

I had great success raising them on apple, but they have many different host plants.
An important note if you decide to raise them - Mist them every other day or so, and they will gulp down the water. You may not need to do this if you live in a humid region, though. I live in a very dry region and it seemed to be a necessity

[MILW]

How many pupa to you have? And where in US are you located? That's something to look forward to in the spring!

cheers- Scott

[wenderwomn@aol.com]

I am currently raising swallowtails and LOVE them! the are the second easiest to raise.. second only to monarchs. there are a lot of sites to research, but the eggs and cats are found on parsley, rue, dill, fennel. carrot ..just to name a few. I would DIE to have Luna moths but they are not really common in our area, and i have heard are found on gum trees. they are beautiful to watch transform as cats, but are very skitsy as butterflies, so they are harder to handle. Good luck in your search! it seems as if you too have been bit by the butterfly bug and are lonely after the monarch are gone! ( me Too)

[Mona Miller]

There's an off topic section for talking about other butterflies. This is the rearing monarchs section. That topic was old 2006.