help _caterpillars oozeing green liquid and dyeing.

[ehewell2000]

We have been raising about 20 cat. babies for about a week and they were doing great but my garden was nearly out of milkweed so I purchased a few plants from Home Depot yesterday and fed them as soon as I got home. Within a half hour or so my daughter noticed they were starting to excrete a green liquid (blood?) , not eatting, acting listless and flipping their heads around. By evening they were dark colored and most were dead. I did a little research online and was wondering if it could have been a virus possibly and the new milkweed had nothing to do with it or if the milkweed may have had some type of pesticide on it. I've used milkweed from Home Depot before without any trouble so I don't know what happened. Has anyone had this happen to them?

[Keith Petrosky]

Could have been a virus, but you think they were ready to turn to pupate? They need to climb, and then they hang upside down and turn to pupae.

[Jim]

Your caterpillar mortality could be due to a viral or bacterial infection; however, the timing is certainly suspect and I would lean toward the Home Depot plants as the culprits. The twitching and expulsion of green liquid are classic symptoms of some type of poisioning. To be safe, you should always rinse questionable milkweed (any milkweed that has been out of your care) before feeding your caterpillars. Unfortunately, this will do nothing if a systemic pesticide was used on the plant.

To reduce the spread of disease you should keep your rearing conditions on the dry side (warm, moist environments promote the spread of disease) and keep the crowding to a minimum - completely isolating the caterpillars is extreme, but one sure way to avoid the spread of an infection.

Hope this helps!

[mary beth barr]

Wow--
This is uncanny--
This is exactly what is happening to me--I thought maybe the dry local air was causing them to get trapped in their molt but they were breaking my heart squirming and bleeding green stuff--
I have very few MW plants left in my yard but have been delivering them to the few greenery left on the stalks--
These plants came from a nursery that is reputable, though--I don't really understand--however, I do remember that this happened last year as well and am wondering if it has to do with it being the first spring batch???
Or is that naive and it's blatantly poison--
funny thing is, some are making it--survival of the fittest I guess--
Please send feedback!

[harpo787]

Curious thing...one of the described "symptoms" was going on with two of our caterpillars out back on the giant milkweeds. They were "headbanging" for lack of a better description. However, no oozing, no color changing, in fact it's a few days after that behavior, and they're so huge I think it's a matter of hours before they head to the J position.

I wonder if the "headbanging" was a behavioral thing...

Oh yeah...the giant milkweeds are from a reputable nursery, so I don't think they'd use any kind of insecticide. However, we recently obtained two scarlet milkweeds from Home Depot. The monarchs of course took right to them as well, and now it seems like each of the two scarlets have 5-6 cats on them. They're SOLD as butterfly plants (blatantly noted for being as such) so I'd hope they'd be smart enough to not pesticide those particular plants....

Sounds like it's time for some research and close observation.

[MILW]

I'd believe pesticide poisoning too- the speed of onset of symptoms is way too quick to be a viral infection. I suppose a heavy dose of Bt might act that fast, but usually Bt is only effective on the first or second instars.

I wouldn't really expect Home Depot workers to pay a lot of attention to every plant label before spraying; also, a lot of the plants are probably coming in from various farms. I'd only trust a nursery if they actually grew the plants themselves.

Oh, and the 'head-banging' behavior can be a defense mechanism if the cats are disturbed- sometimes they'll spit up green stomach contents as well, if roughly handled.

cheers- Scott
(my first outdoor milkweed is sprouting now, yay!)

[He. katie]

It may not be pesticide because I've never used any on my plants, and some of my monarchs have been seen doing the same thing. My guess is that it is a virus of some sort. They will start throwing up, and then fall over and turn brown or black and not move.

[stacey16]

Hi Everyone,
I'm new to this board but I've been raising caterpillars for 20 years.
I just had the same thing happen to four full grown caterpillars last night.
I found all four at a state park (the milkweed was near a lake) at 1/2 inch long size. Is this a virus? If not, I was wondering if they sprayed for mosquitos there and the milkweed was contaminated. If it was poisoning, would they grow to normal size? I would think they would have died sooner. I have two more and wonder if they will suffer the same consequences. It was odd that four died on the same day. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Stacey

[Farfalla]

Hi all! New to the boards here,too.
And new to rearing Monarchs from eggs.
Glad to find kindred spirits
It seems that so many things can go wrong with monarch cats...between predators and disease it is easy to see why so few make it in the wild.
Stacy,I would have thought that poisoning would have killed them sooner too. It seems that the more I learn.. the more I learn about what I don't know,ya know?
For instance..I was also under the impression that Monarchs lay only one egg on a single plant . Yet I am finding multiple eggs on many single plants. So I am wondering about this as well....

[Teresa]

One thing i've learned is that plants purchased from anywhere were probably planted in potting mix that contains miracle grow or something like it. Every time i've used it this happens with the green oozing. Beware of anything like that.

[Lindabird]

Hi! I'm new to this board also. I've been raising black swallowtails for a couple of years, but when I found two monarch caterpillars last year, I was hooked. My swallowtails lay their eggs on my parsley plants. Last year, I had a few of them that had the green stuff too. However, they didn't die and I had several in the same cage, and only one had the green stuff. It happened more than once too.

This summer I planted a monarch waystation in my backyard and have started one at the school I work at (haven't applied for certification yet). I also read that monarchs lay one egg per plant. I too have found several plants that have more than one egg.

I do have a question though. I didn't get my milkweed seeds planted in my garden until late April/early May so they are quite small. The largest is probably around 18 inches tall. I'm worried that I won't have enough milkweed for my cats. I have several different kinds of milkweed growing in my garden. So my question is......If I run out of milkweed, and I have to go find some in a field, do they have to have the same kind of milkweed that they had been eating, or will any milkweed do?

One other question....Is it better to bring the eggs/cats in to a butterfly pavillion, or let them mature on the plant? With my swallowtails, I usually bring them in when they are still eggs. Last year I had 35 eggs at one time, and I nursed them and divided them up between all the teachers, and we only lost 1.

Sorry for a lengthy first post. If I did anything wrong or broke any rules, please let me know. I look forward to a long, fulfilling relationship with all of you. It's so nice to get to share the excitement of finding eggs, or watching one pupate, etc. with others that find it equally exciting. I think my neighbors thought I was nuts to turn my vegetable garden into a monarch waystation. However, they have noticed the beautiful butterflies in my yard. I think some of them are starting to get it!

Linda

[Farfalla]

Hi Linda!
Welcome!
I would love to raise swallowtails, too! But I can never find any pesticide free parsely.. do you grow it yourself?

Anyway.. back to Monarchs.. there are lots of methods. I think everyone here does something different.If you read through some of the threads you'll get some good ideas.

I didn't have any trouble switching my earlier monarch cats from tropical to common milkweed.. in fact they seem to prefer it.

Welcome! And good luck with your certification. Do you have the summer off? It sure does go by fast!

[Bugsy]

The same thing happened to 2 of my cats. They were in the "J" and then that's it. They both started to molt but never finished. One turned into a kind of mush, the other got as far as making a partial chrysalis. and that's it. Never saw that before. The milkweed I have has no pesticides on it. I've seen the 'head-banging' thing before and everything was all right with the cats.

[thlawless]

my family has been raising monarchs since i was a child. yesterday we brought home two caterpillars from the bike trail near our home and soon after we put them into the tank we usually raise them in both started to ooze the green liquid and lay around listlessly. after much thought we decided that the bug spray we had sprayed onto ourselves before heading out had probably gotten onto the caterpillars. i rinsed them both in a small container of lukewarm water and then dried them gently on a paper towel. i also washed all of the leaves we had come in contact with. both are still alive this morning, but not doing much.

[altierior]

...they were starting to excrete a green liquid (blood?) , not eatting, acting listless and flipping their heads around. By evening they were dark colored and most were dead.

this is similar to my situation (i have already started another thread in this forum: http://www.monarchwatch.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=708), but my cats do not discolor and they do not die. they stay listlessly squirming and oozing green. so bizarre.

[Gwynne]

my family has been raising monarchs since i was a child. yesterday we brought home two caterpillars from the bike trail near our home and soon after we put them into the tank we usually raise them in both started to ooze the green liquid and lay around listlessly. after much thought we decided that the bug spray we had sprayed onto ourselves before heading out had probably gotten onto the caterpillars. i rinsed them both in a small container of lukewarm water and then dried them gently on a paper towel. i also washed all of the leaves we had come in contact with. both are still alive this morning, but not doing much.

When I was having a tick problem, I remember a woman specifically telling me that you could not use bug spray when looking for caterpillars. I would try to get new leaves if possible.