New at this - a few questions

[pinkbungalow]

Hi,
I have some milkweed and other butterfly plants along a fence in the back yard, secluded, sun for about 7 hours. I get lots of caterpillars, they devestate the milkweed, I plant more but I have only seen evidence of one that made it to be a butterfly. I had 10 caterpillars the size of my little finger yesterday, today I only see 4. I don't know what might be eating them.... or if they have crawled off, but I don't se evidence of them making a pupae (sp?). So I am wondering if there is anything I can do to protect them more (netting or something?) and or if there is something I can do to make a better place for them to hang, or if I should make a cage and try to bring them in? Or I could attach something to the fence... I have a nice screened pool area - I could bring some plants in and make a habitat with some netting.... but I need some direction. Nothing that will be too high maintenance overall

thanks!
Holly

[harpo787]

I'm pretty new to this too, been setting up a butterfly garden (combined with a rock garden too) for a few months, and dealing with the actual caterpillars for a bit over a month now.

I know that some days I'll see like 6 or 7 cats on a plant, the next day I'll only see 3 or 4. However, another day later, I'll spot more again. I think they just hide pretty well on the underside of leaves.

I'm jealous of your screened in porch, that's a perfect set up for protecting the pupa. I'd suggest getting a milkweed or two and leaving them in pots and have them inside the screen. Maybe transfer the larger caterpillars to those plants. I only mention that because I notice that when they totally strip down the milkweed, it seems there's nowhere left for them to pupate. Oh yeah....personally, I've found it easiest to transfer the cats by clipping the leaf/twig they're on right off the plant and then placing on the soil inside the potted plant. They'll play dead for a bit, and then either resume eating the leaf they were transferred on, or they'll get up on the new plant right away.

I've also read on here (just keep poking around, you'll find lots of info inadvertantly) that often cats will crawl off and pupate somewhere besides where they were feeding. Personally, out of about 30-40 cats that I've seen out in the garden, I've seen 4 pupae. Two a while back (one disappeared, the other hatched) and two now, one which is doing just fine the other has fallen that I've posted about elsewhere in these forums.

[Jim]

Hey there Floridians!

The best way to protect developing larvae from predators and parasites is to find them early in development and enclose the plant they are feeding on with a tightly sealed mesh bag - we offer Insect Rearing Sleeves via the Monarch Watch Shop for just this purpose (or you can try to make your own):

Rearing Sleeve (item #113205)
Perfect for raising monarchs and other critters on plants indoors or out! These white mesh sleeves have a clear panel for observation, one full-length zipper that allows the sleeve to open flat, and long strings for sealing the ends around branches or tree-trunks. Sleeves may be zipped together to increase the diameter so as to enclose sections of tree trunks or other large objects. Sleeves are approximately 24"' x 27" (unzipped).



As harpo mentioned, your screened porch could be a good spot to raise your monarchs. Tropical milkweed (Asclepias curassavica) does very well as a container plant - you could keep some of the containers outside and then cycle the plants after they have been chewed down by the caterpillars. Harpo's tip of clipping the leaf is a good one - keeping handling of the larvae to a minimum will decrease the chance of inadvertantly damaging them.

Harpo, you're full of all sorts of good info...yes the larvae tend to wander a bit before pupation. If you don't mind finding pupae in all sorts of weird places on your porch you can let them roam, but if you want to keep them together you'll need to either keep a close eye on your 5th instar caterpillars and move them to an enclosed space prior to pupation or use rearing sleeves or something similar to contain them.

Here's a fun photo of a monarch that apparently had free reign inside a classroom:



BTW - "pupae" is the plural form of "pupa"

Hope this helps!

[harpo787]

LAFF! I saw that picture posted elsewhere here in MonarchWatch...but couldn't remember where! Wanted to show it to my mom.

Oh yes...wanted to ask: how can you tell when the cat is ready (or rather getting ready) to get into J formation and become a pupa? The closest I've seen to it is just that the cat has already attached it's rear to wherever the pupa shall hang from as seen in this pic:



I notice the attachment point is white in the pic, but will later become black (and much thinner too). By the way, this is the same cat who would later fall down. Look at the size of this leaf (giant milkweed) and note the criminal in this pic. I think we can take this to court and sue that criminal cat. Here's the gory aftermath:

[Jim]

I notice the attachment point is white in the pic, but will later become black (and much thinner too).

Actually, the white you are seeing is the silk "button" that the caterpillar lays down before turning around and hooking its last pair of prolegs into it. The black cremaster will hook into this silk pad during pupation.

Your 5th instar caterpillars will stop feeding and may begin to wander a bit looking for a suitable spot to pupate.

Did you know that monarch caterpillars spin silk?



We wrote an article on the subject in the July 2002 Update/Newsletter - check it out

[pinkbungalow]

Thanks for the tips. I got some more milkweed and potted it, found some bamboo stakes and old screen, and wrapped it around the pot, tied it at the top and hung it from the eaves of the garage, in the lanai. I put 2 big caterpillars in and a couple tiny tiny tiny ones, plus I think I saw an egg or two. I came home today and found an escaep (the biggest guy) on the outside of the screen "habitat" at the top. I went to move him back in and he was a little sticky - must have just started spinning the silk. I felt bad about bothering hiim then, but put him back in and he crawled to the top of the INSIDE this time and started again. He's hanging like a "J" and I can see the white webbing. I had also put another in a big plastic pitcher with some leaves and screen on the top, and he is also on the top attached to the screen but not hanging yet.

I still haven't figured out if the outside ones crawled away or were eaten... I am thinking they were eaten so I am glad I brought these guys in. Would the lizards eat them? I have seen the lizards eat palmetto bugs, which my felines won't go near.

I can't figure out how to post pictures here yet, but here's a link that shows my makeshift habitat.

http://web.mac.com/hlynn1/iWeb/Paradise ... 6C24C.html

[harpo787]

Cool set up you got going there! Obviously you don't want monarchs to drink from the flowers and/or lay more eggs on it. I'm working on an "elaborate" structure myself.

I believe I've read on here that once the cats get past a certain size that lizards tend to leave them alone. I'm sure birds typically aren't intimidated by the size of the cats but, in general, I think that like the monarch butterfly the color pattern etc. makes birds/lizards leave them alone.

I also know I've seen a monarch butterfly knock a monarch cat off the plant while laying an egg. I'm not sure if it was intentional or not. I've also read here in MonarchWatch that it's also a common form of defense for them if a threat is near to simply drop off the plant. So there's a variety of reasons/ways that your cats have gone missing.