50 or so caterpillars, not enough milkweed

[iwritecode]

Hello,
This afternoon, we saw that we have about 50 caterpillars in various stages and they are eating all the milkweed. Yikes. It seems like yesterday, there were plenty of leaves, and today, half the plants are naked. Should we go ahead and grab the bigger caterpillars and put them in a container for them to pupate so the little ones have a little more to eat? Or let nature take its course? What happens when all the milkweed is gone?

[iwritecode]

We found some smaller caterpillars (about an inch or smaller) on some other plants close to the milkweed plants. Should we move those smaller caterpillars back to the milkweed?

[Mona Miller]

Caterpillars will go off the milkweed during the day and also to molt.

[iwritecode]

Hi,
So all the milkweed leaves are all eaten. We have 60 caterpillars out there in the garden just chilling on the stems without anymore leaves . Anything we can do? Please advise. Don't want them to just die of starvation.

[Mona Miller]

I used to drive around in my van with a large round plastic tub with water and cut milkweed on the side of the road. Also, 5th instars can eat pumpkin and zucchini.

[iwritecode]

Thanks! Got some zucchini and cucumber. Trimmed the milkweed with the caterpillars and put 'em in a makeshift screened container with the cut zucchini and cucumber. Hope many will make it.

[Mona Miller]

Are they eating it? I've tried pumpkin. I put spanish pumpkin on the stems and they ate it and pupated.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1907&p=9470&hilit=feeding+pumpkin#p8999

[iwritecode]

Yes, the ones that got to it are eating (small and big ones). The rest are still on the stem of the milkweed. Don't know if we should place them on the zucchini/cucumber or let them find it. Guess we'll find out in the morning. Thanks again!

[Mona Miller]

You can only feed this to 4th and 5th instars. The smaller instars will not make it on this diet. Is there any possibility of finding other food for them?

[iwritecode]

Wish we have time to hunt for wild milkweed. The nursery sprays insecticide on their milkweed, so that's out. Just cleaned out the container and put fresh zucchini and cucumber. 4 dead, the others are pretty active. 2 have started to pupate (turn into a "J" - is that the right terminology?). Others are just moving about or finding a place to pupate (we assume). By the way, when we clean the bottom of the container, we spray some Windex antibacterial on a paper towel to wipe the it down. Is that ok?

[Mona Miller]

No Windex is not okay it is a chemical. Butterflies are sensitive to chemicals. Please take some water and wipe down your container to try to clean off the windex.

If at all possible please go hunt some milkweed. I can't tell you how many times I have driven around with a large bucket with some water in it, in my car, looking for milkweed and a safe place to pull over.

I was just out today before the thunderstorm cutting some milkweed. Luckily, I have a field that I have negotiated for it not to be cut right away or I'd be traveling the roads trying to wrangle some milkweed for this crew of caterpillars that I am feeding.

Where are you located? State? Maybe someone is close by and can help you.

[blazing star]

If you're near me, I've got plenty of milkweed. There has to be a natural area near your house that has milkweed. I'd be surprised if this isn't the case. Where are you located?

[iwritecode]

Wish there is more time to hunt or call around for milkweed, but family and work comes first... monarch butterflies are a much lower on the to-do list. Already spent about 45 minutes just to clean up the container (just hot water this time when wiping the container down!) and cutting fresh zucchini. More time than we care to spend, but trying to help so will sleep a little less tonight.

2 caterpillars have a long web thread coming out of it. 3 others are dead hanging upside down. Guess it's due to parasites? 3 others were just dead. The others are moving about. Quite a number left on the zucchini. 2 have become chrysalis. A few more looks weird. But glad that there are many large caterpillars still alive and still hoping they will make it.

[Mona Miller]

The caterpillars with the strings have been parasitized by Tachinid flies, sorry. The flies have been very bad this year all over the US and Canada.

http://www.monarchwatch.org/forums/view ... nid#p14807
This topic has more info on them.

I sleep a little less during Monarch season. It is 11:30 PM here in Virginia. I finished fixing dinner at 7:30 PM, then began cleaning up all the caterpillars and just finished around 11 PM. I also have Spicebush and Black Swallowtails to feed so I had to get a flashlight to grab some food for them.

[blazing star]

You don't have to hunt. People may come to you. No one has to know your exact address. If you want to disclose the area, in which you live, someone may be able to help.

[Mona Miller]

http://www.monarchwatch.org/update/2006/0831.html#5
Just saw this on an older MW Newsletter. Monarch caterpillars eating watermelon.

[ajb524]

I'm in the Northeast Georgia area and have been out of milkweed for a few days now. I've been feeding them organic zucchini for the past few days with pretty good luck. I'm going to try watermelon tonight. I have one that I grew from my garden so I know it has not been treated with anything. I only have a few left, but hopefully they will survive. Next year I'll be planting a lot more milkweed!

[Mona Miller]

You see, I can post your message on the main dplex email list and there are many more people there. I will email your privately if anyone in your area has milkweed. This is why Blazing Star and I wanted to know your location. There's lots of Monarch people out there and we help each other.

This is the website for the main Monarch Watch email list:
http://www.monarchwatch.org/dplex/index.htm

[blazing star]

I'm in the suburbs northwest of Chicago, IL if anyone needs milkweed.

[iwritecode]

Mona:
Here's to you! The first 2 butterflies. Thanks for rescuing them!!!!

A couple weird issues: the left one eclosed but never fully emerged. The right one just turned into a pupa but looked like it didn't complete - due to tachinid fly, right? Both have been like that for a day. Should we assume both are dead?

bad.jpg (20.74 KiB) Viewed 2826 times

9 chrysalis in the box and a few more surviving cats enjoying zucchini... all thanks to you.

lastbatch.jpg (31.7 KiB) Viewed 2826 times

[Mona Miller]

The dark one looks like a fly problem. I've had plenty of those. The other one may be OE or an issue with the shape of the chrysalis. I've had deformed chrysalis that kept the butterfly from emerging. It's been a challenging year.

I always mist the chrysalis/pupae once a day. With inside air conditioning, things get dried out and it can actually cause them to have problems getting out of the chrysalis. I figure in nature that they are rained on and they get the morning dew every day. Then, we bring them inside. I've had people tell me that their state has plenty of humidity, but the butterflies can't tell them how they are doing. So, they emerge. Would it have been better if they misted a little while in the chrysalis/pupae stage? I try to mimic nature by providing as much natural light as I can (not direct sunlight inside because the light through the windows is more intense) and misting the pupae. I don't mist the caterpillars. They get enough moisture from the milkweed. I do provide more moisture for the eggs by misting the paper towel underneath a plastic lid (the leaf pieces are on the lid, the paper towel is under the lid, this keeps the leaves from rotting so fast).

[iwritecode]

Thanks for the suggestions. The wet paper towel is definitely keeping the milkweed leaves last longer!

3rd butterfly to emerge

3rd.jpg (38.73 KiB) Viewed 2798 times

By the way, I think the following image is a wasp. Out of the blue, we saw 2 of them in the container. I killed both of them right away. They must have been in the caterpillar.

wasp.jpg (13.46 KiB) Viewed 2798 times

[Mona Miller]

Wow. I've never seen these attack Monarchs.

[Mona Miller]

I posted your picture to the main Monarch Watch email list--dplex-L. This is the reply that I got:

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Shady Oak Butterfly Farm
> That one is a Flower Fly (Hover Fly) that would have emerged from its pupa in the rearing container. It doesn't harm caterpillars. It eats aphids.
> ~Edith

I looked it up, here is your fly:

http://bugguide.net/node/view/14095
Pseudodoros clavatus

[blazing star]

So those are beneficial and should not be killed?

[Mona Miller]

Correct. Identification is the key to it all. Not every thing eats Monarchs (in all stages).

[blazing star]

Thanks for the clarification.

[iwritecode]

Darn. Wish we didn't kill those flies so quickly. I read somewhere that wasps kills the caterpillars so we didn't want to take any chances. But, now we know. Thanks so much for the input. I'll be more careful the next time I see wasp-like insects around the milkweed plants.

An update on the caterpillars. We have 6 total successful butterflies emerge. We have 2 that emerged but died a day after; both didn't look healthy at all. 2 are still in the pupa but have turned dark for days so we assume those are dead. We have one final pupa... hopefully that will emerge soon. 10% survival rate I guess is better than none. Mona, thanks again for your help with it.

@abj524: How did you do with your caterpillars? Hope you had better luck!