My first time raising monarchs!

[Emily]

Hello everyone! My name is Emily, and I've been lurking around for a few weeks and am finally able to post! My daughter visits a farm every weekend while my husband works there, and about a month ago the farmer sent her home with a baby monarch caterpillar. It was intended to be a fun project for my daughter, and while she is enjoying it, I am hooked ~ and I haven't even had a butterfly born yet!

Of course the first thing I did was research research research, which is how I found this site. I ran into an old friend who raises monarchs, and she let me borrow her mesh cage for this season. We are using a small, kind of "flat" deli container (about an inch and half tall) with the lid on, holes poked, and the green stuff that holds water that florists use for flowers to hold up our stalks, then I put the container with plants in the mesh cage. It seems to work really well, my friend just told me to make sure I get the green stuff that soaks the water in.

Our first caterpillar made it to the hanging "J," however when it was still hanging at 27 hours I knew something had to be wrong. Sure enough, the next morning he had the stringy-things and two fly casings at the bottom of the cage. That was rough, since he was our first. However, we headed back to the farm and came home with 3 more cats, and one egg (which never hatched). The biggest caterpillar made it to the "J," and even started to transform into the chrysalis, but after about 10 minutes completely stopped moving and the skin was still about 90% over the chrysalis. No fly casings ever dropped (I let it hang for 24 hours just to be sure) so I have no idea what could have happened. Any thoughts?

I'm worried that he was diseased, and now I'm worried for the other two caterpillars that shared the mesh cage with him. They are almost ready to form their own chrysalis, and I suppose there's not much I can do at this point but wait and see.

Next year I plan on starting earlier. I'm seeing a lot of posts about having a microscope and testing for OE, which I will have to read up on over the winter so I know what to do next year. I see a lot about disinfecting the cages w/ bleach. How do you disinfect the mesh? Spray bottle? And do you disinfect between each "group" of caterpillars brought in? Maybe I need more than one enclosure...I sure am coming up with lots of ideas to give my husband for Christmas!

Thanks for being here, and I'll see you all around!

[Mona Miller]

Welcome to the reality of rearing Monarch butterflies. The Tachinid flies have been awful this year. I ended up buying some wide mouth quart canning jars for older caterpillars that I bring in and keeping them separated from the rest. I take off the tap and put a coffee filter over the top of the jar and then put on the tap to hold it. I write on the coffee filter what stage they were in and the date. I just put in new leaves and dump out the frass (butterfly poop). All containers should be cleaned/sterilized between broods.

There are so many things that can go wrong, but when they go right it is so beautiful and rewarding.

Stalled pupation could be disease or possibly do you have a pet and use any type of flea or tick medicine. Getting that on your hands and transferring it to your caterpillars is deadly for them. I don't have any other pets, but I do wash my hands before handling them. Also, having your container too close to an air conditioner or air conditioning vent. The cold can stall them, too. Or too much heat. No direct sunlight, only indirect sunlight.

I use my wash basin near the washing machine or if I have a lot of containers to disinfect, I use my washing machine. I fill it up with cold water and put in the bleach. You need at least a 10% bleach solution to disinfect containers. And, then make sure to rinse thoroughly.

Plastic containers can be put into the dish washer, just remember to turn off the drying cycle or they will melt.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2358&hilit=Glad+containers#p11506
I use these Glad Containers to hatch eggs and grow the larvae until they are 2nd to third instars. They go through 5 molts. Each molt is called an instar.

Then, I have been transferring them to larger net containers with stems of common milkweed in gallon jugs. I've been growing many, munching, monarchs.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3015
Here's my current set up.

There are many good Monarch people on this list who will take the time to help you.

Again, welcome. We are all on a learning curve.

[blazing star]

Hi Emily,

Here's a few things I've learned from this site and from my experience in raising the butterflies:

Make sure any cat access to the water the leaves sit in is not available as even a drop of water can drown a small cat.

If you collect eggs, rather than the cats you'll have less chance of the cats being affected by parasites.

You don't have to use bleach to disinfect cages (it's rather caustic). You can use a more environmentally friendly cleaner such as vinegar. Some, here, may disagree with this but it's all I've used and I've never had a problem.

Make sure the cages are cleared of frass daily. I use paper towels on the bottom of my cages for easy removal.

If they spray for mosquitoes in your area, this is deadly to cats. I have the abatement district turn the truck off at my house and they call me when they're spraying so I can cover several plants with fabric so that I have leaves without the toxin to use for fresh food.

If the farm, from where you're collecting your cats and milkweed, has GMO crops and uses a lot of herbicides and pesticides, this may create obstacles to your rearing ability of healthy monarchs. I think someone posted a thread on this topic whereby they were having trouble in that setting. If you're interested in having a garden, there should be a variety of milkweed that would grow easily in your yard.

Welcome to the community! I hope you continue to enjoy your new hobby. Just wait until you release your first butterfly. Very neat experience.

[Mona Miller]

Blazing Star,

Can you detail how you use vinegar to disinfect? What kind of vinegar are you using? How much? Do you dilute it? Some one else asked this very question. Thanks. I don't remember anyone saying it doesn't work. Many of us just don't know how to use it.

[blazing star]

I don't delete it at all. I use an organic white distilled vinegar and pour it in the aquarium and then use paper towels to clean the aquarium. I then use water to rinse it off and leave it air out for a day before using the aquarium again. I don't think I have the same prevalence of disease rate here though (Illinois), so I'm not sure if this is the reason that I've been successful with it's use. You stated OE is more concentrated in the southern States. Care to comment?

[Mona Miller]

The level of OE is heavier in states where the Monarch breeds year round. It is also heavier due to the fact that they don't have winters. Cold kills the OE spores, most of the plants that carry the spores, so we in the north end up with a cleaner environment at least in the spring.

You can find out more about OE on the Project Monarch Health website:
http://www.monarchparasites.org/

I'll have to try the vinegar. I hate using bleach, too. I ended up wearing gloves because the bleach melts your skin.

[blazing star]

I cleaned an old apartment, when I was moving out, with bleach. After that experience, I never used it again.

I hope the vinegar works for you.

[skates4marty]

Hi Emily

Please don't get discouraged. Success rates are usually higher. I think this is a bad year for a lot of people. I am hoping for a hard winter to kill off the Oe, etc.

What state do you live in?

[Emily]

Thanks for all the tips!

To answer a few questions ~ I live in SW Michigan, so I believe these two cats I have now will be the last for the season. I have been making sure to clean out their frass at least once, often twice, daily. I have the milkweed stalks in a container that has a lid with just holes poked in for the stems, and am very careful to mop up any water that stays on the lid so there is no drops or puddles for drowning.

The farm we collected from is just a small one family farm they have for self-sustaining purposes, and they do not use any pesticides or chemicals in their fields or pastures. We would walk out into the pasture and hang out with the cows while looking for milkweed. And as far as I know there is no mosquito spraying going on around here, but am not positive. I feel like I would have heard if there was, though.

I do have cats (the kitty-cat kind) and I did apply a topical flea medicine while the cats (the butterfly kind) were in the house. We didn't handle the caterpillars very much at all, however I cannot 100% guarantee my hands were washed in between touching a kitty and dealing with the caterpillar cage. I will be MUCH more careful about this in the future!! Thank you!

I'm still waiting for our last two cats to do their magic, so I still have fingers crossed we will have at least one success out of our four this year. I will not get discouraged, though, and will try again next year regardless of how this year turns out. Learning process, I just wish it could go perfectly since living creatures are involved. I hate to think it was something I did.

I feel like there was something else I was going to write, but can't recall now, so if I think of it I'll add it on.

[blazing star]

I think that's a very good point - to not get discouraged. It never gets any easier to loose a cat, of have the monarch hatch malformed. However, you're giving them a much better chance for success than simply leaving them to their own devices.

I think Mona has another good point about hand washing. I've incorporated this into my routine and wash my hands thoroughly before handling them. Even upon release, I make sure they're clean in case one wants to crawl onto my hand and test its wings before taking wing (that part you'll really enjoy, I have a feeling!).

There's a chart somewhere about migration dates and for Illinois I thought peak was September 29. You're not all that far from me, so if your cats are just now getting underway, it's possible that you're correct in saying that these will be the last two you raise this year. Last year, I saw some migrants come through in October and I couldn't imagine how they'd make their journey without nectar sources here.

It sounds like a lovely site, from which you're collecting your eggs & plants!

[Emily]

Success! Our very first chrysalis formed and looks happy and healthy. I know things can still go wrong at this point, however this is the furthest we've made it yet, so I am thrilled!!

[Mona Miller]

Congratulations!!!

[dandjtaylor]

Once you release that first butterfly, you will be hooked! 50 my first season...so far, 1,430 this season! It is an addictive "hobby". Congrats on your chrysalis.

[SammyG]

I recently asked about the vinegar! We have a tiny bit of bleach in a container in our house, and I used it to clean containers, but I really dislike it and didn't want to have to buy more. I hoped I could use vinegar instead.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Emily]

Hello again, everyone! I just wanted to let everyone know our first successful butterfly emerged from the chrysalis sometime in the early morning hours! I was worried because he went over 2 weeks in the chrysalis, but we had a week long stretch of very chilly weather (50's during the day) so I wonder if he "knew" somehow to wait until a warmer stretch came along. Today is the first day it's supposed to be above 60-65 degrees and he picked today to come out! It could be coincidence, but these butterflies are so amazing I wouldn't put it past him to just know what he's doing. Was wondering if anyone knew if they had that sort of internal clock.

Another question, though - he isn't ready to fly yet, but he'll be ready sometime during the day today before my daughter gets home from school. Is it okay if I wait until she gets home (about 7 hours now). I know he'll be ready to fly before then, so do I need to put some fruit in the mesh cage for him, if I wait? I really want her to be able to release him, but I also want what's best for the butterfly.

We have two more chrysalis that we're waiting on, then we'll be done for the season. I'm already looking forward to next year to do it all over again! Have a wonderful day, everyone!

[Nancy Werner]

Hi Emily--

Congratulations on starting your monarch rearing! Don't be discouraged---one must expect to lose some amount of the monarchs in whatever stage. I've been raising them for 44 years and I lose some, too. It's a wonderful "miracle of birth" experience for kids and a valuable lesson in kindness and stewardship, as well, for everyone.

Please check out my posts in the Monarch Rearing forum and my articles in the University of Minnesota's MLMP (Monarch Larva Monitoring Project) website at http://www.mlmp.org/Newsletters/monthly/2011 and click on the November one, also http://www.mlmp.org/Newsletters/monthly/2012 and click on the June-July one. Everyone raises them differently, and these articles list a lot of my tips for large, healthy monarch butterflies.

It was a more successful year for the tachinid parasites, as posted. Spiders are another threat to the caterpillars. I have found that when I check my various "sources" (milkweed plants) daily and raise monarchs from eggs, I have the best luck.

Best of luck to you, and for future years of raising the "flutters" as well! And remember the story of the starfish--'it makes a difference to this one'

Nancy Werner
(FlutterMama)

[Mona Miller]

Hello again, everyone! I just wanted to let everyone know our first successful butterfly emerged from the chrysalis sometime in the early morning hours! I was worried because he went over 2 weeks in the chrysalis, but we had a week long stretch of very chilly weather (50's during the day) so I wonder if he "knew" somehow to wait until a warmer stretch came along. Today is the first day it's supposed to be above 60-65 degrees and he picked today to come out! It could be coincidence, but these butterflies are so amazing I wouldn't put it past him to just know what he's doing. Was wondering if anyone knew if they had that sort of internal clock.
Another question, though - he isn't ready to fly yet, but he'll be ready sometime during the day today before my daughter gets home from school. Is it okay if I wait until she gets home (about 7 hours now). I know he'll be ready to fly before then, so do I need to put some fruit in the mesh cage for him, if I wait? I really want her to be able to release him, but I also want what's best for the butterfly.
We have two more chrysalis that we're waiting on, then we'll be done for the season. I'm already looking forward to next year to do it all over again! Have a wonderful day, everyone!

Sorry to answer your question so late. Monarch Watch actually recommends keeping them 24 hours to let them really dry their wings. They do not need to eat this first 24 hours, but you can mist the cage lightly with water later. If the butterfly begins to bash itself against the cage, just give it some darkness. I often cover the cage with a lose black garbage bag, just like you would do a parakeet.

[Emily]

I'll remember the 24 hours for our last two chrysalis. We released this one about 10-12 hours after he eclosed. He sat on my daughter's hand just long enough for a couple pictures and then fluttered off! Now it's in his hands, hope he makes his journey safely!

He was bashing himself against the mesh, but only after I picked up the cage to carry it outside for release, otherwise he was just wandering slowing around the ceiling of his cage. I'll make sure to keep the other two for 24 hours and keep them in darkness before release. What a learning process, but so rewarding and fun!!

One of our chrysalis looks a bit discolored, but it chose to form it's chrysalis on a milkweed leaf and ended up touching the leaf after it wilted for about 24 hours (that's when it first became discolored). I then used a hair barrette and a stick to wrap the leaf and clip it (the leaf, not the chrysalis) so the chrysalis hung straight again. Hope it's all right. I'm still too nervous to relocate and rehang the chrysalis, but I think this method worked this time. We'll see.

You folks are wonderful here, so glad to have found this source for my learning processes. I'll let you know how my last two turn out and then I'll start preparing for next year! I'm using a borrowed mesh cage this year, so I'm looking forward to organizing my own set up. Have a great night, all.

[Mona Miller]

Hi Emily--
Congratulations on starting your monarch rearing! Don't be discouraged---one must expect to lose some amount of the monarchs in whatever stage. I've been raising them for 44 years and I lose some, too. It's a wonderful "miracle of birth" experience for kids and a valuable lesson in kindness and stewardship, as well, for everyone.
Please check out my posts in the Monarch Rearing forum and my articles in the University of Minnesota's MLMP (Monarch Larva Monitoring Project) website at http://www.mlmp.org/Newsletters/monthly/2011 and click on the November one, also http://www.mlmp.org/Newsletters/monthly/2012 and click on the June-July one. Everyone raises them differently, and these articles list a lot of my tips for large, healthy monarch butterflies.
It was a more successful year for the tachinid parasites, as posted. Spiders are another threat to the caterpillars. I have found that when I check my various "sources" (milkweed plants) daily and raise monarchs from eggs, I have the best luck.
Best of luck to you, and for future years of raising the "flutters" as well! And remember the story of the starfish--'it makes a difference to this one'
Nancy Werner
(FlutterMama)

Thanks for posting this information.

http://www.monarchlab.org/Lab/Rearing/Default.aspx

I'll have to read through this later, but it looks like some great information.