Cats going into "j hang" too early

[dje158]

We have been blessed with a huge number of eggs in my garden this year. We are currently in the 70s. What a difference since we did not get any last year & 24 our first year. Yesterday I woke up to find 2 cats in j hang. They were at the top of the container the previous night but I thought they were just molting, as that is where the majority go. As of last night, they still had not metamorphosized and one was hanging straight instead of in the J. Today they were all shriveled up. Now today, there is another one in a different cage that is in the J. As with the 2 others, I believe that he is a 3rd instar. Does anyone know what is going on? I feel horrible, like it is something I must be doing.

Also, there is always someone molting on the side of the cages so I cannot throughly clean them. I do remove all leaves, frass & wipe the bottom clean. However I am reluctant to use clorax wipes (as was recommended on another site) when there are cats on the sides - not that I would go near them but still worry about using any type of chemical that close to them. How does everyone else handle this?

Thank you for any help you can give,
Debbie

[Mona Miller]

Where are you located, state wise?

I would not use clorox wipes that is like using bleach without rinsing.

Fly parasites have been bad this year. That position of your caterpillar sounds like a possible fly problem. The caterpillar will pupate early or later. The parasite controls them--yuck. Then, often you will see a hole or a string. Some times they even pupate and the fly will come out of the pupa/chrysalis.

http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2008/01/d ... d-fly.html

At the bottom of the container, the tiny fly larva is changing to a pupa

[dje158]

Thank you - yuck! When I cleaned the container this am (of the shrunken cats), I did notice a long silk strand but did not see anything else. Mine never metamorphosize & just stay in the J & shrivel up. I have another one now for a total of 4. This is so upsetting to me!!

I had the same thoughts about the clorax but I also shy away from using chemicals in general. That site (which is the one you linked me to) made me feel like if I did not do it, I was risking all of my cats.

I am in the Southern Tier region of NY (NY PA border). Last time we had the cats, it was not until late August. I never saw the monarch around so did not even think to look. We did catch most quite early & some as eggs but I guess even then can be too late.

Thank you so much for all of your hard work. This site has helped me out so much.

Thanks,
Debbie

[Mona Miller]

Oh dear, which site was that. I want to make sure I gave you the right information.

If you found the string, the tiny pupa is somewhere. You may have thrown it out when you cleaned up the frass.

Did you collect these as caterpillars? More 2nd-4th instar caterpillars are infected with fly larvae than eggs, first instars, or 5th instars.

Are you raising inside or outside? If you containers outside are not parasite proof, the flies will lay right through the netting.

[dje158]

The site was My Monarch Guide but you referred me there for the information on the Tachinid Fly. I am fairly new to this & want to make sure that I do everything "right" so as not to jeopardize the cats. This (Monarch Watch) is my go to site but when I was looking for info on the early j hangers, it took me to that site (although no info on that site about it). I always check this that seem questionable out here first before proceeding.

Anyway, they are kept inside. I found a handful as eggs, most as new hatchlings but we are still finding some in larger stages so they are probably the ones that have been affected. Twelve are currently in chrysalis, 1 has been released, around a dozen are in 4th instar, when I separate them so that they can metamorphoise without worrying about others & the rest are in-between. I get them as soon as I find them but some were just too far back to be found or hid really well!!

Again, thank you for your help,
Deb

[Mona Miller]

If you read through she talks about disinfecting tools and counters, then later says to rinse every thing.

Ooops, I'm sorry that wasn't clear.
http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2007/05/t ... trade.html
I found this sentence on this page.

"You can use Clorox wipes to disinfect the counter and your tools but be sure to use water to rinse everything afterwards."

[blazing star]

If this helps, I am now using two containers. I have one container that has the cats. As soon as the cats get large, right before they go to a J, I move them to the other container to form their chrysalis. If I want to clean the container with the cats, I then can move the cats to the chrysalis container (it's large) while I'm cleaning it.

I, too, do not use chemicals in my house. For sanitizing anything here, I use white vinegar. This is what I use to wipe down my glass containers. I think rinse out the vinegar and am good to go.

Just a suggestion on your set up. For anything health related, I've no clue and always look to Mona for info.

[dje158]

Thank you - I had wondered about vinegar since that is what I use for normal cleaning but am always wary of using anything with the cats. As soon as mine get large, I do move them to another container (individual). Since I have over 70 right now, someone is always in the process of molting so there are always a few on the sides of the containers. I went out & bought a few more containers today so hope that I can get a few completely empty each day to really clean. Anyway, thanks for your suggestions. I am always curious as to how others do it.

To Mona, as for the My Monarch Guide, I only read one page (Tools & Supplies for Raising), where she said to wipe the area with clorox wipes & to be sure that they are dry before handling the caterpillars with them. I did not read any of the other pages where she said to wash things off. My mistake.

Thank you all again for your help. It is just heartbreaking to me every time I lose one. Losing 2 in one day (with another 2 on the way) has not been easy.

Deb

[Mona Miller]

The deal is the statistics outside are not good. We give them a much better chance for survival.