Raising communally?

[David Calhoun]

I think I know what the answer to this question will be, but I would still like to hear. I have tons of milkweed, can get lots of eggs,but don't have the time for more than 40 individually containered cats. I bet that with the same effort and time, using huge cardboard boxes, with, say, 25 cats per box, I could feed 150 . ---- But I might be releasing more diseased monarchs that way. This has come into my head because I see so many eggs and first instars out there, and I just don't have time to save them all, not in individual containers, anyway. David

[Mona Miller]

Right now, I have so many caterpillars in my tent. I hope that I can give some away--I will.

You are right. Better to raise a few and keep them healthy than raise tons and take the chance that you will have problems.

[4estry]

I can relate to this post...

Adjacent to my property is city owned land which has its grass cut regularly. Unfortunately, young milkweed continually sucker up in the grass, and Monarch's continually lay eggs on the young plants throughout the summer (they seem to prefer to lay their eggs on young plants). The city comes and cuts the grass and kills the eggs/young larvae on the young plants.

I have a problem this year with some bug (bacteria, virus, protozoa, ???) this year with any caterpillar I bring into captivity. How can I save them? I have never seen such small caterpillars go into the pre-pupal "J" before and then die hanging upside down??? I don't want to bring anymore Monarchs in for fear of infection, and don't like the idea of them facing the wrath of the lawnmower.

Presently, I am moving the young larvae (usually 1st instar) to plants that don't get cut and bring the eggs in until they hatch, then return the young cat to an outside safe plant...safe, as in one that doesn't get cut. Am I just saving them for the ants, spiders, flies, wasps, birds, etc. that are lurking in the shadows?

Tim...
You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?

[Mona Miller]

I bought an aster that had a nice cluster of eggs that I thought were Pearl Crescents. Well, I found out that they were some type of moth and I couldn't identify them--I tried.

http://s964.photobucket.com/albums/ae121/Runmede/Moth/
Here's a photo.

I decided to take the Asters out of the predator proof cage and placed them into my garden in their pots. Well, the wasp are having a field day--munch, munch, munch.

The success rate in the wild is about 1-2%. But, over time the Monarchs just keep multiplying that. Two make it out of say 600 eggs, then those two have two--it does add up. There's still a lot of predation in my yard this year. I have never seen so many wheel bugs (assassins--huge), I think it has to do with the level of Marmorated Stink bugs and the Stink bugs are drawing in more predators. Of course, the predators eat more than just the Stink bugs.
http://www.hiltonpond.org/thisweek030901.html
This website has some good pictures and info on the Wheel Bugs

Your caterpillars sound like they have some type of parasite. Probably fly or wasp parasite. The fly/wasp larvae can actually manipulate the nervous system (inside) of the its prey. This causes the caterpillar to take a shorter time or a longer time to pupate. Some times they will go to pupate and just hang there and you can find the string or hole where the parasite escaped. Other times, they will pupate and the string or hole will be in the chrysalis.

http://www.monarchwatch.org/biology/index.htm
Monarch Watch Biology
Look on the left for all kinds of good information.

http://www.evansonart.com/monarchdisease.html
Great info on everything from rearing to disease.

http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2007/07/d ... spore.html
http://www.learnaboutmonarchs.com/learn ... spore.html
OE
http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2008/01/d ... d-fly.html
Dreaded Tachinid Fly

http://www.uga.edu/monarchparasites/whatisOE/index.html
How to tell if butterflies are infected with OE
"An infected pupa may develop dark spots or blotches two or three days before the butterfly emerges. These abnormal dark areas are parasite spores. Spores form on the eyes, antennae, wing veins, but mostly on the abdomen. You can see the spores through the outside layer of the pupa a day or two before pigments that color the butterfly normally darken the pupa. Before a butterfly emerges from the chrysalis, pigments are laid down coloring the scales that cover the butterfly. This normal change in the color of the pupa is symmetrical. The color change of an infected monarch happens earlier and does not create a balanced pattern on the pupa."

[skates4marty]

I, too, have stink bugs ruining my tomatoes, and saw my first wheel bug. I didn't know what it was, so I took a pic and posted it on bugGuide.net and got an answer within an hour. They say the bite of a wheel bug hurts more than the sting of a bee.

[Mona Miller]

And, some people are allergic to that bite. The park manager's (where I volunteer) daughter got bitten and ended up in the hospital two times. Be careful every body. Most of the time, I put on plastic gloves to work in the garden.

[mickapoo]

I think I know what the answer to this question will be, but I would still like to hear. I have tons of milkweed, can get lots of eggs,but don't have the time for more than 40 individually containered cats. I bet that with the same effort and time, using huge cardboard boxes, with, say, 25 cats per box, I could feed 150 . ---- But I might be releasing more diseased monarchs that way. I see so many eggs and first instars out there, and I just don't have time to save them all, not in individual containers, anyway.

I'm curious about this too- the monarch farms and breeders out there sure aren' t raising each caterpillar in an individual container! So how do they do it effectively, and safely? One site I saw had them in Sterlite clear plastic containers (shoe box size) with a hole cut out of the top and wire mesh over it for ventilation. They'd add new milkweed trimmings to the container every day. They definitely had more than 1 cat in each container.

[Mona Miller]

http://dragonflypower.com/MSReference.htm
Raising Butterflies Video
Near the end of the video is a interview with a butterfly farmer who is a biologist.

Try searching on "raising, butterflies" or "raising, monarchs" in the search--upper right.

[dandjtaylor]

I am at 1,050 on the season. The only way I can do it is this:

10 eggs per container
4 cats per container until 5tgh instar
single cats fifth instar to pupation...cut them down and pin them up
clean (bleach water) the container...re-use

Still it takes a couple hours a night to clean feed sort, etc.

I found that any more per container, they start trying to nip each other and they try to pupate to early...

[branduin]

I don't have the quantity that some others do but I raise mine in plastic containers with sheer fabric taped across the lid (cut out the center of the lid). I usually keep like 4-7 cats per container and keep them separated by similar sizes. When they get nice and fat I take the lid off the rearing container and put the container inside my netted released cage so that they can form their chrysalis there themselves when they are ready. Sometimes I don't get them in time so I just move any chrysalis that is formed in a rearing container.

Raising many, many cats communally I think that the success rate would go down quite a bit as the bigger ones tend to eat the smaller ones. I lost a few that way before getting extra containers to keep them separated by size.