NEW to Rearing w/ BIG Question!!

[Mia Monarch!]

Hi!

While I have watched the wonderful monarchs, babying them, by talking to the cats, I decided to try tagging them this year!! What an experience! When my first boy emerged, I was so shakey that I hd to enlist the aid of my neighbor girl to get the tag on! I just about cried, when I put him on blue salvia, watched him drink, and then fly away!! I prayed that God would circle him with love and protection!

Now, I have a second "child" emerging, but I am worried that something has happened, as a lot of time has passed and not much activity!! I have added a picture (I hope!) to show what the butterfly looks like.

He/she is sensitive to touch, but hours have passed with it in this same position (MAYBE a pinch of progression) and I am worried sick!!! Has it gotten "stuck" in the chrysalis? Is he too weak to continue?? Is he DYING?? Can I do anything??

He is in the same container that the first butterfly was in, that emerged successfully, however, I have added the little tray with the butterfly nectar and a small vase with salvia and flowers from a butterfly bush. There is blue vine and common milkweed in the bottom of the container. This container is in the same spot as it always has been, so there has been no change of temperature.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this?? I am heartbroken, to think he may die!!!
Thank you, Paula

PS How do I add a picture to this post??

[Mona Miller]

The info on adding an image is in the FAQ section, upper right:
"Can I post images?
Yes, images can be shown in your posts. If the administrator has allowed attachments, you may be able to upload the image to the board. Otherwise, you must link to an image stored on a publicly accessible web server, e.g. http://www.example.com/my-picture.gif. You cannot link to pictures stored on your own PC (unless it is a publicly accessible server) nor images stored behind authentication mechanisms, e.g. hotmail or yahoo mailboxes, password protected sites, etc. To display the image use the BBCode [img] tag."

Upload the picture to Flickr or Photobucket (both of these are free). The get the html code. Hit the "Img" close listed along the top of this message and put the html in the middle of the "img".

Or, you maybe able to attach it by using the "upload attachment" below this message. You can check to see if you have done it right by hitting the "preview" button, before you hit the submit.

[Mia Monarch!]

Well, I have the picture attached!!!
It is now 7 p.m. central time and this is how I found the butterfly when I woke, around 1 p.m. He does respond to touch, so I assume he is not dead! He has maybe emerged a little more than the picture shows, but not much.
BUT, what can I do, as it seems he needs help of some sort!

Thank you, kindly, Paula

[Mona Miller]

I hate to tell you this, but this butterfly is stuck and will not be able to inflate its wings any further. The most humane thing to do at this point is to put into a plastic zip lock bag and put into the freezer. Sorry.

It could have OE. OE causes this to happen. They are so weak they cannot get out of the pupa.

[Mia Monarch!]

What is OE??

[Mia Monarch!]

If I were to see this at an earlier time, say shortly after it started emerging, would there be anything to do then???
I am broken-hearted and want to cry!
Can the pupa be carefully pulled away, or would that tear the wing?? I saw on some post about misting, but don't know what that was about. Is that something that could be tried??
I raise persians and I try everything (moth-to-mouth, etc.) for long periods of time to try to save little ones, so it is my nature to try everything I can to save a little being.
Practically in tears! Paula

[Mia Monarch!]

Is this little creature a victim of OE??

I have cleaned out my container (a medium-sized hamster cage!) and disinfected it. I have several cats left, but a couple are lethargic, appearing to be getting dehyrated, and not moving much. What I have read, after researching OE, it seems to me that this is the problem, but I am not sure. I am removing them and leaving the cat that appears to be healthy. I have one that seems to like the top of the container, but I think he should be bigger, if he's going to change! He just seems to like to "cruise" (and not eat!) , so I wonder if he's "all there"!

When collecting the cats, most everyone has moved on to the chrysalis stage, but the last that I have collected have died. I have included a couple of pictures, wondering if the dead caterpillar possibly succumbed to OE, and the other of a chrysalis with 3 black spots. They have been visible for a long time, and I am not noticing any speckling at the present.

This is such an exciting experience for me - to go beyond watching butterflies, spiders, etc., in my garden and I appreciate this forum! I have learned a few things, with more knowledge to come, I am sure!!

Thank you, most kindly, Paula

[Mona Miller]

Looks like you have more than one issue:

http://www.evansonart.com/monarchdisease.html
Great pictures and info on diseases.

http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2007/07/d ... spore.html
http://www.learnaboutmonarchs.com/learn ... spore.html

http://www.butterflyfunfacts.com/oe.php

http://www.uga.edu/monarchparasites/whatisOE/index.html
How to tell if butterflies are infected with OE
"An infected pupa may develop dark spots or blotches two or three days before the butterfly emerges. These abnormal dark areas are parasite spores. Spores form on the eyes, antennae, wing veins, but mostly on the abdomen. You can see the spores through the outside layer of the pupa a day or two before pigments that color the butterfly normally darken the pupa. Before a butterfly emerges from the chrysalis, pigments are laid down coloring the scales that cover the butterfly. This normal change in the color of the pupa is symmetrical. The color change of an infected monarch happens earlier and does not create a balanced pattern on the pupa."

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/butterfly/
FAQ section has some good butterfly information.
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/butt ... 14581.html
Important Info RE OE & Monarchs!
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/butt ... 31715.html
Why does a Monarch caterpillar or chrysalis turn black?

[Mia Monarch!]

Thank you, Mona! I will look at these sites!!

[Mia Monarch!]

I dont' think you can see the frass very well, but maybe enough to tell me if you think there is a problem with this caterpillar.

It is not really tan, but rather a light green, versus a dark (black/brown/dark green???) color. Is that indicative of a problem? I apologize, as the picture isn't very good, as you can tell!

The caterpillar has really eatten a large amount of the milkweed leaf, so I am wondering if it was just resting to shed it's skin

[Mona Miller]

I see frass coloration change with the color of the leaf they are eating--especially, when they eat the seed pods that are still fresh and soft.

I'd worry more if it started leaking green. They do rest for up to a day or more when they molt (shed their skin).

I'd take precautions and separate it from the rest of the other caterpillars, if you have more in the container. Empty frass often.

I put a 5 oz cup under the papertowel and lean the milkweed on that. That lets the frass roll off the leaves a bit.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2358&p=13449&hilit=glad+containers#p13449

[Mia Monarch!]

I have several butterflies, now, and am waiting for warmer weather! They have several flowers in a vase, I have misted the container and there is butterfly nectar in a dish. Do I need to actually feed them the nectar? Should I put some fruit in with them?
I have 2 that emerged on Wed. and a couple that emerged on Thur. and Fri.
Tomorrow is supposed to be warmer with some sun, so I am anxiously waiting for that day, but I am nervous about the wait. I was actually looking to see is the weather was different to the south of me, and was willing to drive a couple hours to let them go, but it's the same there as here!
They seem to be doing OK at the present, but I don't want to push my luck!

[Mona Miller]

Check their abdomens. If they are getting enough nectar on their own, then their abdomens will be full. If not, their abdomens will be thin.

[Mia Monarch!]

Thank you, I will do that! Can I put fruit in with them? I have seen fruit in butterfly houses, but don't know if monarchs go to it.

[Mona Miller]

A friend recommends watermelon. She says some of her butterflies can't get enough.

Another suggestion is to hand feed them before you let them go. That will give them a good meal before they travel.