Have 1 Chrysalis Failure and 1 general question

[terrifly]

I have had a sad day today with one of my first chrysalis. My husband called me this morning when he got to work and said that it looked there was a problem with one of the chrysalis. I went to check on everyone and one of them was spilt open and underneath all over the paper towel was a large amount black goo or liquid. It was too soon to be emerging and didnt look like thats what it was anyway. And the chrysalis was all shruken and squished in.
I took the chrysalis out put it in a bag and froze it. I know I should of got a better look at it but...I was kinda grossed out and didnt want to look.
Any idea of what happened?

Ane the other question is , this group of cats were so stubborn on where they did their J and they all wanted to do it next to each other! Way to close next to each other...so I was just tried to scoot their butts with a paint brush an inch over further. But of course one very stubborn one decided to J directly nect to another pupa. Is that going to be a problem?

Thanks, This time around ...seems to be more of a challenge.
Thanks

[Mona Miller]

When they start roaming you can put them into a different container.

Could be a parasite?
http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2008/01/d ... d-fly.html
Tachinid Fly

Also, some times one active caterpillar will actually chew on another and that could cause the damage. Was the pupa already formed? Or was it just about to shed it's skin.

http://www.evansonart.com/monarchdisease.html
This is a good website for parasites and diseases. Loads of good pictures.

[terrifly]

Ok....The Chrysalis that broke open and oozed the black liquid had been well formed for a week. It looked perfectly normal until this morning. It doesnt look like any pictures I saw on those photos.
There is only one other pupa that was near that one about 1 1/2" away. That pupa formed about 4 days ago.
I dont know what happened...It looked like a very nice size healthly Chrysalis.

*********
The question about the caterpillars doing the J next to each other, it was too late for me to do anything about it he was already way into his J position and now he is touching the pupa next to him...I know I will have to move one of them when they are both good and hardened.

Terri

[Mona Miller]

Look around for a fly pupa. They are a bit hard to find because they are so tiny. That may have caused the pupa to break and ooze.

After they have hardened a good 2 days, spray them with water. Wait about 10 seconds. The silk will loosen, carefully pull them off what they are attached to. If they don't come easily, spray them again with water. If they are that close, they will come off together. Carefully take some scissors and cut them apart, make sure you leave enough silk on each. I usually take a stick pin and then put though the silk (not the cremaster or pupa), and then you can pin them up. I use a net container so that if they fall they will have a chance to climb back up. I weave the stick pin in and out and leaving the sharp point on the outside of the container. I place the stick pin in a downward position so the pupa will not slide off.

[terrifly]

Well, I cleaned out all the paper towels that were on the floor of the net cage....and I put them in the beg too in the freezer. Like I said I was very creeped out. Um....I might have my hubby check it out when he gets home. Im going to take a good look around the cage right now and see if everyone else is alright and see if I see anything strange.
Thanks for your help. I will let you know what I see and what happens.
Terri

[Mona Miller]

It is pretty gross when the fly larvae comes out. The pupa does leak some fluid then.

[terrifly]

Mona,
If it was a fly or wasp larva infected Chrysalis...should I do something to the chrysalis that was near that one...sould it be wiped down in some way???
Terri

[Mona Miller]

Does it have something on it? If not, I would leave it alone. Did you bring in the larvae as eggs or older caterpillars?

[skates4marty]

this group of cats were so stubborn on where they did their J and they all wanted to do it next to each other!

My group uses net cages from LiveMonarch.com. Some in our group have had luck putting a square of dark felt on top of the cage, so the whole ceiling is dark. Then the cats seem to form their J's more spread out.

[terrifly]

There does not seem to be anything wrong with that chrysalis. I got them all as cats from monarch watch.
I also use the live monarch net castles and had the top covered because of sun. It did not prevent them from wanting to do their little huddles

Terri

[Mona Miller]

http://shop.monarchwatch.org/store/p/11 ... Condo.aspx
Butterfly Condo
I like this one and find the butterflies don't break their wings as much.

These are more parasite proof than the Live Monarch cages and drain better.

http://educationalscience.com/merchant. ... tus=passed
Giant Square Pop-Up Butterfly Cage /Terrarium, 27 x 27 x 48in, LH175
http://educationalscience.com/merchant. ... tus=passed
Square Pop-Up Butterfly Cage, 16.5 x 16.5 x 30in

http://educationalscience.com/merchant. ... tus=passed
Butterfly Farm Hanging Butterfly Pavillion
Great for eclosing (emerging) pupae

[terrifly]

Well, I have to say that after having a couple lossed this second set of cats shows me that is definatley not so easy to raise then healthy no matter what you do. I have lost 4 so far and I am watching another chrysalis I seperated yesterday from the rest. And will be seperating another today...the one who decided to set up shop right next to another pupa.

I think that the humidity and all the rain we have been having has not been kind to my little babies. I am thinking next year I might try it indoors. My first set went pretty well but it was more late spring beginning summer. Better weather all around for outdoors and less buggy too.

Not a happy camper here in NJ.

[Mona Miller]

You are raising them outdoors in what type of cage? And, what type of conditions? Full sun, part shade, where is the location?

[terrifly]

They are raised in in a live monarch jumbo tent castle under an enclosure my husband made to keep them out of direct sun and rain.

Terri

[Mona Miller]

Have you checked the temperature inside the cage? This could be part of what is causing your problem. It may be too hot. What is too hot? Over 100 or more degrees without enough foliage.

I'd raise a few inside to see if your luck changes.

[terrifly]

I will try a few inside but I really am quite sure it is not too hot inside there. They are a shaded area and have air flow also. But I guess because our humidity level lately has been horrible that could of been a problem.
Terri

[Mona Miller]

You would have to take a temperature reading to verify the temperature. I used a cheap electronic temperature gauge. All I know is that you are having problems. I've seen caterpillars start to pupate and stall when the temperature was too hot inside of the tent. They were not able to get their outer skin off.

[terrifly]

Hey Mona,
I know this is an old post but I am starting to get my spring gear ready early. The Monarch Watch Butterfly Condo enclosure...Does that one have an enclosed bottom? I found alot of pop up enclosure simliar to this style but some just sit over the milkweed plants ect.. I want one that is enclosed all the way around.
I have the live monarch castles but am looking for other ideas.

Thanks
Terri

[Mona Miller]

Yes, it has an enclosed bottom. It also breaks down so you just have fabric and is easier to sterilize.

[terrifly]

Ok Thanks....