Why are Monarchs Still Abundant on GM Farmland?

[Paul Cherubini]

Yeah, you're right. The monarchs were in the cemetery and the trees in the cemetery and not in the GM cropland.

Here's a video taken last August at Hector, MN just 30 miles north of Winthrop, MN that shows monarchs clustering right next to the GMO corn crop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mYvwYxMQb0
You still don't consider that "in the GM cropland"?

Since you apparently don't think monarchs breed successfully in great numbers on the abundant milkweed that grows along the margins of GMO crops in the Midwest, then would you object if midwestern farmers decided to destroy all their GMO crop margin milkweed like they already have in California?

[blazing star]

Unlike you, I need scientific evidence from which to form my conclusions, i.e. what percentage of monarchs lay eggs in crop margins, do the larvae live or do they die from pesticide spraying and mowing, etc.

And, again, you put words in my mouth. I never said monarchs don't breed successfully in margins of crops. What I said is that your posts do not contain evidence of this. Not one.

[Mona Miller]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26695859@N ... 910139781/
This gas pipeline area, which I have negotiated again this year to delay mowing has significant milkweed. Your pictures are so blurred and hard to see I can't see what the heck you are talking about. If you go through my photos, you can see an egg, a large monarch larva, and an adult, plus significant milkweed. A picture of a few stalks of milkweed is not significant milkweed. The big issue is that we can't trust your information.

The field is located in Reston, Virginia.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Fox+mill+ ... 2&t=h&z=19
This is the field where I collected tons of milkweed seeds last year and sent them to Monarch Watch for their Bring Back the Monarch Campaign
http://monarchwatch.org/bring-back-the- ... arch-guide

[Paul Cherubini]

Unlike you, I need scientific evidence from which to form my conclusions, i.e. what percentage of monarchs lay eggs in crop margins, do the larvae live or do they die from pesticide spraying and mowing, etc. I never said monarchs don't breed successfully in margins of crops. What I said is that your posts do not contain evidence of this. Not one.

In my very first post in this thread I wrote:

The margins of the GM crops are not sprayed with herbicides so milkweed and wildflowers are rather plentiful although in variable stages of development due to occasional mowing.

At first glance these crop margins look industrialized and not promising for monarchs:
Landscape view:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260tha.jpg

But as you look more closely you can see there is milkweed and wildflowers and if you walk through the milkweed between 9:30-11:30 am in the morning, you will occasionally encounter a newly emerged monarch that has soft wings and can barely fly if disturbed like this one:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thb.jpg
Supporting video showing 2 more newly emerged monarchs at this same spot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d8abPhdly0

Here's another landscape view further down this same farm road that at first glance didn't look like it could ever be good breeding or nectaring habitat for monarchs:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thc.jpg

But once again upon closer inspection, another newly emerged monarch popped up into flight and landed on a flower growing next to a sign that said "Roundup Ready" soybeans:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thd.jpg
Supporting video of that same newly emerged butterfly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6wnMVo0bdc

And the next day when I stopped at another milkweed patch next to a field of Roundup Ready soybeans I saw this newly emerged butterfly that could only fly briefly and it landed right next to the Roundup Ready sign: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXkrf7eZw5k&NR=1

There is no doubt in my mind that if midwestern farmers ever decided to get rid of all the milkweed along their GMO crop margins, monarch enthusiasts would use my photos and videos as evidence monarchs do breed successfully in large numbers along these margins and therefore the milkweed growing next to these GMO crops should be preserved.

[blazing star]

Again, your post is full of speculation and contains no viable data, as was indicated more thoroughly in my last post.

[Paul Cherubini]

Likewise amphibian enthusiasts would want to use my videos of the abundant frogs that exist next to the GMO corn and soybean fields as evidence the crop margins where these frog survive should be preserved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1JHJKMEsVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr8k2U5saDI

[Mona Miller]

Three hopping frogs on a dizzying, blurred video. Who else was with you? I hope that they help you with that camera. I've had a very good class on amphibians and reptiles.

http://savethefrogs.com/how-to-help/
"Do NOT use pesticides!
Pesticides and herbicides are toxic chemicals that generally undergo little to no testing on amphibians prior to their being approved for use. Unfortunately, the law of gravity has it that many of these pesticides end up in waterways, where amphibians live and breed. To make matters worse, amphibians have permeable skin that is highly absorbent. Populations of the endangered mountain yellow-legged frog Rana muscosa that live downwind of highly agricultural areas in California's Central Valley have disappeared at a significantly higher rate than other populations. Atrazine, perhaps the most commonly used herbicide on the planet (33 million kg are applied each year in the US alone), can cause hermaphroditism in frogs (males grow female sex organs) at ecologically relevant doses, and can reduce survivorship in salamanders. Atrazine also affects water quality in lakes, resulting in more snails. These snails serve as intermediary hosts of a trematode parasite that burrows into the developing limbs of tadpoles and causes limb malformations. Roundup (also sold as Touchdown Total) is lethal to gray treefrog and leopard frog tadpoles, and most likely a host of other as yet untested frog species. Roundup is the 2nd most commonly applied herbicide in the USA; it's produced by Monsanto, the same folks who gave us Agent Orange. Over half of the DNA found in frogs is also found in humans, so if these pesticides kill frogs, imagine what they do to us! Read more about pesticides here, and sign this petition to get Atrazine federally banned and out of production."

[Paul Cherubini]

Three hopping frogs on a dizzying, blurred video. I've had a very good class on amphibians and reptiles. http://savethefrogs.com/how-to-help/ "Do NOT use pesticides!."

Well if you believe the 5 frogs in my two videos were unhealthy due to pesticide use then I guess that means you wouldn't mind of the midwestern farmers eliminated the grassy crop margins altogether which would prevent these "contaminated" frogs from breeding.

Same principle applies to monarchs; if you believe the GMO crop margins are fatally contaminated with pesticides from the GMO crops then you shouldn't mind if midwestern farmers eliminated the milkweed and flower filled crop margins altogether which would prevent the "contaminated" monarchs from breeding.

[Mona Miller]

They can just eliminate the pesticides/herbicides. They are killing us, too.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Che ... 1601054549
I have a question. Is your cat, dead or alive in your profile picture.

[Paul Cherubini]

http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Che ... 1601054549
I have a question. Is your cat, dead or alive in your profile picture.

The cat is sleeping on top of me. Sleeping comfortably because I use liquid imidacloprid insecticide on her neck (trade name Advantage available at Walmart) to kill fleas.

[Mona Miller]

http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Che ... 1601054549
I have a question. Is your cat, dead or alive in your profile picture.

The cat is sleeping on top of me. Sleeping comfortably because I use liquid imidacloprid insecticide on her neck (trade name Advantage available at Walmart) to kill fleas.

Advantage has killed cats. Have you read the reports?

[Paul Cherubini]

Dragonflies are another group of insects that are abundant on GM farmland. In fact they are swarming right now over wide areas of Iowa - the state with the most concentrated acreage of GM corn and soybeans.

[Mona Miller]

Migration.

[blazing star]

Thanks for point out, once again, that insect fly over GM farms. They fly over my house, too, but my house isn't usable habitat. Thanks for more evidence of the lack of usable habitat GM crops provide.

[Paul Cherubini]

Here's an eyewitness account of how dragonflies and birds are abundant in the immediate vicinity of the GMO cornfields of Iowa right now:

[Mona Miller]

Migration.

[Paul Cherubini]

They can just eliminate the pesticides/herbicides.

They can't do that because crop yields would be drastically lower:
This video made by the owners of a chain of ag chemical dealers in the upper Midwest explains why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX1keB9fvC0

Lower yields would require more wildland to be farmed in order to produce the same amount of food which obviously means more unnecessary loss of habitat for wildlife. Pesticides therefore SAVE habitat for wildlife.

[blazing star]

Wrong again.

Anyone can google "Biodynamic, organic farming yields compared with conventional farming" and find that you fail with your data once again. Your you tube video of a checmial ag dealer does not make for the study of a subject.

This does: http://www.biodynamics.in/Soil1JPR.htm

In the study of wheat, yields were dramatically better with biodynamic, organic farming. Other benefits are healthier soil composition and matter, quicker seedling emergence count, lower operating costs than conventional farming and more consistent gross margins than conventional farming.

This shows you fail, too: http://www.jdb.se/sbfi/publ/boston/boston7.html

The bad news is it would put people that like to kill things out of business, i.e. you.

Wikipedia, if you like such a source, even proves you wrong. I'm starting to wonder how it feels to have a fail button with each post and scribe.