Why are Monarchs Still Abundant on GM Farmland?

[blazing star]

Paul, I don't even have to go beyond your first link to Keystone Alliance for Sustainable Agriculture. They're educational programs are sponsored by......drum roll please.......Monsanto!!!! Why bother reading any other links you've posted? This would be comical if you weren't so deceptive with your info.

[blazing star]

Remember, I've been doing this for 18 years. My friend Harry Pavulaan is actually doing DNA studies on Mourning Cloaks. These are from MA. He gave me a bunch of them to raise and is raising them, too.

Then, I raise Monarchs. Tomorrow, I have to try to get up early and go check out the gas pipeline area before they mow. Last year, they mowed early Sept. I did call and email them to see if they could delay mowing. They are mowing down caterpillars that would probably make the journey to Mexico.

Also, raising Red Admirals, Pipevine and Spicebush Swallowtails for conservation--grow and release.

It's not how many you raise, because every one does count. There are many people out there helping the Monarchs.

This year I'll be lucky if I raise about 100. I got started so late because they just weren't here.

I think it does matter how many one raises. I went on a road trip a couple weeks ago and was sad to see the Monarchs migrating along busy expressways. I actually hit, and I'm sure I killed, 3 in a short 1 1/2 drive. That coupled with the evil pesticides that killed my one cat and caused problems with the others, have led me to believe I need to be more dedicated to mass production next year. I'm sure you'll be here to help me through the road bumps.

What do they study the DNA for, by the way?

[Mona Miller]

The DNA allows scientists to determine if there is a difference in the species. It allows them to find subspecies.

[blazing star]

Gotcha. So you're like a citizen scientist.

[Mona Miller]

We all are citizen scientists. I'm a very curious person. Always asking questions. Thinking about how to do things better. Develop better ways to raise butterflies.

Don't worry as long as I'm breathing, I'll be here to help every one.

[Paul Cherubini]

First fall roost report this year with 1000’s of monarchs is from a small farm town in northwestern Minnesota that is surrounded by GM crops: http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1282693939 http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/ogema.jpg

[blazing star]

For those new to this thread, please see all posts on this thread. Paul uses biased data (pro GM data from GM manufacturers) for his data that he posts concerning GM crops.

[Paul Cherubini]

I saw this monarch roost report today from Hutchinson, Minnesota on Journey North
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1282751631
“been observing very large numbers of monarchs clustering in our grove of trees for the last several days”

I then wrote to the observer to learn more about exactly where she saw the butterflies and how many she saw. Here’s what she wrote:

“in past years there have been THOUSANDS that take off from our grove and BLACKEN THE SKY. They are hard to see, but I estimate them in the HUNDREDS at this point. Over the past week their numbers have increased."

I then went to mapquest to get aerial views of the trees where the roosts were seen. Turns out that just like Lynn Rudeen, the observer in this case lives in a farm house out in the country and the monarchs cluster in shade trees in and around the farm house which are in turn surrounded by monocultures of GM corn and soybeans:

Close up aerial view:
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78 ... roosta.jpg
More distant aerial view:
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78 ... roostb.jpg
More distant aerial view:
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78 ... roostc.jpg

So we see once again that monarchs are still spectacularly abundant on the GM farmland of the upper Midwest despite all the pesticide use.

[Mona Miller]

"I've been seeing a lot of butterflies, in several different species, this year than in years past.
I see 4 or 5 Monarchs a day, but have not seen any cats yet. Though I admit I have not been searching for them either as my milkweed patch has gone crazy with all the rain we have been getting. My coneflowers, bee balm and hostas etc. are all flowering better than ever.
Lots of humming birds this year too. Too much rain for the crops, but the flowers and butterflies (& mosquitoes) are having a great summer her in MN.
Lynn"

Lynn has a milkweed patch that is separate from her husband's corn crops.

Lynn wrote: "The deal I have made with my husband is that I can have as much milkweed as
I want, as long as I don't let it go to seed. It reproduces just fine (have to pull it out of my lawn all the time) without going to seed."

LynnRudeen to dplex-l Feb 21
"Please keep in mind that milkweed has always been kept out of corn and soybean fields. Even before Round up ready seed. There has been a trade off here, less herbicide sprayed.
If the farmer is growing corn and soybeans for seed, milkweed and nightshade cannot be present or the crop can not be sold as seed.
As for BT corn, don't forget that farmers are required to keep 20% of each field in non-BT corn. Usually this 20% surrounds the entire field which helps to keep down BT pollen drift. Don't assume farmers are anti-monarch. They try to coexist with nature and still make enough to stay in business. I am married to a farmer. I have a LARGE milkweed patch in my yard and grove. I have thousands of Monarchs stop at my house every year and have not seen a dramatic drop in population. In fact I had more monarchs emerge this year than ever before! L. Rudeen"

Leaving out parts of the message leads people to believe that GMO Crops are actually okay.

What did Chip Taylor (February 21)from Monarch Watch say about GMO crops?

"Has there been an impact of GM corn and soybeans - you bet!
We've lost the milkweed in at least 100 million acres of corn and soybean fields since the adoption of Roundup Ready soybeans and corn. Most of this acreage has been lost in the corn belt - the heart of the monarch breeding area. The loss of this habitat has certainly had an impact on monarch numbers - showing that such an impact has occurred - as apart from temperature and other factors - is not possible at this time - allowing GMO advocates to claim that - since we can't "prove" that there is an impact - there must not be one."

August is migration time. Why do you keep leaving out information? Pesticides and herbicides kill.

Just keep picking sentences out of paragraphs and maybe people won't take the time to go actually read the whole thing. Shame on you.

"Similarly, you will notice that the corn belt is roughly outlined on the map. Historically the corn belt has been an area of high monarch reproduction, a point emphasized by the isotope study conducted in 1996 (1) that showed roughly 50% of the monarchs that reached the Mexican overwintering sites originated in the corn belt and the subsequent finding published in 2000 (2) showing that corn and soybean fields were the most productive breeding habitat for monarchs in the Midwest. Subsequent to these studies (but beginning in 1997) Roundup Ready soybean varieties, typically used in rotation with corn, were introduced to the American farmer as a cost and energy effective means of weed control. Unfortunately, the widespread planting of these genetically modified seeds has eliminated milkweed from at least 100 million acres of row crops. Clearly, there is less milkweed/monarch habitat available in the corn belt than there was in the past but has this reduced monarch reproduction in these areas or have monarchs simply shifted their reproduction to common milkweed at other disturbed sites? Habitats for monarchs are becoming increasingly fragmented and there are more and more areas where monarchs are unable to reproduce due to the lack of milkweed and nectar sources. We need to know how monarchs respond to these changes to mitigate habitat losses.... (Mona Note: There's more above and more below. Please read all of that blog.)

http://monarchwatch.org/blog/2010/05/tw ... ation-map/

[blazing star]

For those new to this thread, please see all posts on this thread. Paul uses biased data (pro GM data from GM manufacturers) for his data that he posts concerning GM crops.

[Paul Cherubini]

Last weekend I decided to visit the GM farmlands of south-central Minnesota to document the large numbers of monarchs there.

Here is the specific area west of Minneapolis and some specific farm towns I visited where I saw numerous monarch cluster sites containing 300-2,000 clustering monarchs:
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/wina.jpg

Here is just part of a major cluster site I saw in the farm town of Bird Island, Minnesota on Aug. 28:
Video still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/bia.jpg
Actual video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4e3S2sm13g

Here is a cluster site I saw a few miles north of the farm town of Bird Island, Minnesota and next to a field of Roundup herbicide Ready Soybeans on Aug. 28:
Landscape photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/birc.jpg
Cluster photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/bird.jpg
Photo of landscape and cluster: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/birde.jpg

Here is a another cluster site I saw in the farm town of Danube,
Minnesota on Aug. 27:
Video still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/danuc.jpg
Actual video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDxKwEgsjPc

Here is a another cluster site I saw about one mile north of farm town of Danube Minnesota on Aug. 27 and next to a field of Roundup Ready soybeans:
Video still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/danub.jpg

At the cemetery in the farm town of Winthrop, Minnesota about 500 monarchs clustered next to a field of blooming alfalfa (cow feed):
Video still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/winb.jpg
Photo of alfalfa: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/winda.jpg

Across the street from this cemetery was a much larger cluster site with about 1,500 monarchs:
Video still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/wintf.jpg
Actual Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJCnU7PB9to

In a row of trees along the main railway line at Gibbon, Minnesota there were about 1,000 monarchs clustered:
Video still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78 ... bbonsc.jpg
Actual video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCayVVKhlWM

Literally hundreds of clumps of trees in this genetically modified corn and soybean growing region of Minnesota had 100's to low 1000's of monarchs.

The general public is not aware monarchs are so abundant on these GM crop farmlands hence they make no effort to visit them.

[blazing star]

For those new to this thread, please see all posts on this thread. Paul uses biased data (pro GM data from GM manufacturers) for his data that he posts concerning GM crops.

[windrider]

I'm sorry Paul, but I think I'd have to equate you more to a spammer.

Unfortunately the more data you linked, the more obvious it became that you have some sort of financial tie to GM use, be it actually growing, manufacture, sales or something else. That you've failed to answer to WHAT your interest or tie is, as asked, speaks volumes.

Your data is more of the data-mining and shot gun approach that sounds off alarms in my head. You show fragments of reports that sound wonderful by themselves, but not so as the complete text is read (IE: data-mining). And you throw a good deal of it out there to make it seem extensive (IE: shot gunning).

You show beautiful pictures and say 'abundant' quite often. But the pictures of 'abundant' are minuscule when compared to the vast acres comprised of the farm belt.

What you're failing to provide is a good amount of detailed, extensive data from multiple sources.

Personally, I'm still on the fence about genetic manipulations, but considering your presentation, which I feel is wrong and unethical; if you are truly a representative of the industry, then you've just put a tick of negativity up on my count board.

Bill

[Paul Cherubini]

You show beautiful pictures and say 'abundant' quite often. But the pictures of 'abundant' are minuscule when compared to the vast acres comprised of the farm belt.
What you're failing to provide is a good amount of detailed, extensive data from multiple sources.

Journey North is an independent source and reports of monarch roosts with up to 1,000 butterflies have been coming in recently from small farm towns in Iowa that are surrounded by GM crops just as they have in year's past:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1283990521
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1283989184
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1283979610
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1283857232

These independent reports confirm what my videos show; i.e. that monarchs continue to be spectacularly abundant on the GM croplands of the upper Midwest despite the pesticide use.

[Mona Miller]

List: TX-Butterfly
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 12:39:57 -0500
From: John Barr <jmbarr...>
Subject: Monarchs in Minnesota???
Is Paul under contract for his propaganda?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: lance biechele <ltb0076@...>
Date: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: Unintended Consequences
To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs@yahoogroups.com
Hey Paul,
Thanks for the great report about the abundance of Monarchs in Minnesota. SORRY - I don't think that monarchs use corn or soy beans for their livelihood. You didn't mention the myrads of insectshowever, that DO rely on these crops. Why is their such a defense to continue the pollution of this planet with genetically monitored crops??? With Best Wishes, Lance

[Paul Cherubini]

Mona, those posts by Jim Barr and Lance do not disagree the accuracy of my claim that both the independent Journey North reports and my videos show that monarchs continue to be spectacularly abundant on the GM croplands of the upper Midwest despite the pesticide use.

[Mona Miller]

What they do disagree about is the GMO crops--wake up. You are wasting time and time is so valuable. You could be doing so much good with your time.

Perhaps I need to post what John Barr had to say further. This was posted to the Western Monarch List :
--- Original Message -----
From: John Barr
To: hjohnson1952@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 8:37 AM
Subject: Hello
Helen,
I am sorry to have offended you.
This is going to be a longish post, so let me start with my sincere thanks for your efforts on behalf of the Western Monarchs. I was responding to Paul's post on a Texas Butterfly list. I'm not sure how I got over to the Western Monarch List.

Since you posted your response on the Western monarch list, may I ask how you came to see my comment on the Texas Butterfly list? And why did you post your response on the Western Monarch List? Quite frankly, I had never heard of your list, although I had heard of your efforts, until you posted your response.

Let me explain:

1: Paul's pictures really were not germane to a Texas Butterfly list. (Just as Minnesota monarchs are not really germane to a Western Monarch list.) When he goes out of his way to post the same photos and comments to various tangentially related lists, I get suspicious.

2: Paul knows enough about the biology of Monarchs to know that all his comments about round-up crops do not apply to the Monarchs in the pictures. Those clustering Monarchs most certainly did not grow up in those fields, and Paul knows it. When he goes out of his way to include comments about the round up crops in the foreground, especially when he takes a picture with the round up sign in the foreground, and circles it......I get really suspicious.

3: I have seen Paul post numerous comments in response to general news articles about butterflies all over the web, and it seems that he always has positive words to say about Round Up and Round Up ready crops, even when completely unrelated to the topic at hand. When the same person repeatedly goes out of their way to make the same positive comments about Round-Up all over the web, I get really, really, suspicious.

I think you missed the part of the definition that I was applying to Paul's comments. Instead of injuring Monarchs, I think he is promoting Round-up and Round-up ready crops. He is most certainly engaging in: "Information or ideas methodically spread to promote..." Round-Up, Round-Up ready crops, and Genetically Modified Organisms.

I have no idea why he is engaging in this behavior. Maybe it is a personal agenda. If so, he is spending lots of time, energy, and credibility to mislead people. That seems a strange idea.

Hence my simple question: "Is Paul under contract for his propaganda?" Getting paid to mislead people is standard practice in American business. Its called Marketing. Business pays big money to get their products portrayed in a positive light. If someone with Paul's credibility is not getting paid, he should be.

I do not know Paul. I really know nothing about him except his writings about Round-Up. It seems you know Paul personally. If so, then ask him, why? If it is not paid propaganda, then what's up?

Thank You,
John Barr

[Paul Cherubini]

What they do disagree about is the GMO crops--wake up. You are wasting time and time is so valuable. You could be doing so much good with your time. Perhaps I need to post what John Barr had to say further.

The only point of disagreement seems to be when Jim said: "Those clustering Monarchs most certainly did not grow up in those fields, and Paul knows it." But I never claimed the clustering monarchs grew up in the GM fields. I claimed they grow up in the GM crop margins. Here is a repeat of my very first post on this topic where I showed photos of newly emerged monarchs in the GM field margins:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
At first glance these crop margins look industrialized and not promising for monarchs:
Landscape view:http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260tha.jpg

But as you look more closely you can see there is milkweed and wildflowers and if you walk through the milkweed between 9:30-11:30 am in the morning, you will occasionally encounter a newly emerged monarch that has soft wings and can barely fly if disturbed like this one:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thb.jpg

Here's another landscape view further down this same farm road that at first glance didn't look like it could ever be good breeding or nectaring habitat for monarchs:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thc.jpg

But once again upon closer inspection, another newly emerged monarch popped up into flight and landed on a flower growing next to a sign that said "Roundup Ready" soybeans:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thd.jpg

Here's another Minnesota road with a similar situation:
Landscape view:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/cty8a.jpg
Then upon inspecting the milkweed growing next to the GM soybeans a newly emerged monarch once again popped up into flight and landed on a blade of grass growing next to a sign that said "Roundup Ready" soybeans: http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/cty8b.jpg

[Mona Miller]

Paul,

Most of us are adults, most of us understand what GMO crops are. Most of us know about Monarch migration. Why do you keep us this farce?

I have a question. Did you drive or fly to Minnesota? If you drove, that's about a 4,000 mile round trip. A very long trip, just to take pictures of GMO crops with Monarch migrating through them.

[Paul Cherubini]

Paul, Most of us are adults, most of us understand what GMO crops are. Most of us know about Monarch migration. Why do you keep us this farce?

What specifically are you disagreeing with? Do you disagree that my photos below represent examples of newly emerged monarchs that grew up on milkweeds growing along the margins of GMO crops in Minnesota?
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thb.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thd.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/cty8b.jpg

[Mona Miller]

YES! I do disagree that thousands of Monarchs grew up (completed their cycle) in the crop margins of those fields during the time when those fields were being sprayed with Roundup. Why are you the only person arguing that they do?

When my neighbor's Chemlawn guy isn't careful and sprays my flowers with weed killer, they die. Cosmos aren't weeds.

You didn't answer my question about your travels?

[Paul Cherubini]

YES! I do disagree that thousands of Monarchs grew up (completed their cycle) in the crop margins of those fields during the time when those fields were being sprayed with Roundup. Why are you the only person arguing that they do? You didn't answer my question about your travels?

Mona, I am not are of any monarch experts who have stated monarch adults and caterpillars are no longer abundant along the margins of the GMO corn and soybean fields or no longer able to complete their egg to adult cycle (by the thousands) along these margins. Are you aware of any? `

As I previously explained, the margins of the GMO crop fields are not sprayed with herbicide so the milkweed and monarch caterpillars are not killed, hence monarchs are abundant along the GMO crop margins all summer long (are able to complete their egg to adult cycle). I have also previously posted many photos showing monarchs do successfully breed in abundance along the margins of the GMO crop fields. Here are the specific photos:

Here’s an aerial view of the crop margins (highlighted in yellow):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/sqylow.jpg

At the beginning of August, BEFORE the migration has begun, monarch adults and caterpillars are abundant along the GMO crop margins of southern Minnesota and Iowa:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/truma.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/trumb.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/trumd.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/baleh.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/balef.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/baleg.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/overc.jpg

In the middle of August, newly emerged monarchs that are capable of only brief flights, can be routinely be seen in the milkweed patches along the GMO crop margins of southern Minnesota in the morning hours, proving they successfully completed their egg to adult cycle along these margins:

Still photo: http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/cty8b.jpg
Video of the same butterfly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXkrf7eZw5k

Still photo: http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thb.jpg
Video of the same butterfly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d8abPhdly0

Still photo: http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/260thd.jpg
Video of the same butterfly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6wnMVo0bdc

These newly emerged mid August adults are in reproductive diapause and
they begin to cluster in the evening:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/morris.jpg

By late August the clusters in southern Minnesota contain hundreds or thousands of monarchs because so many newly emerged monarchs have hatched from the GMO crop margins both in the local area and other farm areas to the north (GMO crops are grown as far north as southern Manitoba):

Still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/bia.jpg
Video of the same butterflies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4e3S2sm13g

Still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/danub.jpg

Still photo: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/wintf.jpg
Video of the same butterflies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJCnU7PB9to

[Mona Miller]

I think these two posts sum up what you are continually up to.

For those new to this thread, please see all posts on this thread. Paul uses biased data (pro GM data from GM manufacturers) for his data that he posts concerning GM crops.

I'm sorry Paul, but I think I'd have to equate you more to a spammer.

Unfortunately the more data you linked, the more obvious it became that you have some sort of financial tie to GM use, be it actually growing, manufacture, sales or something else. That you've failed to answer to WHAT your interest or tie is, as asked, speaks volumes.

Your data is more of the data-mining and shot gun approach that sounds off alarms in my head. You show fragments of reports that sound wonderful by themselves, but not so as the complete text is read (IE: data-mining). And you throw a good deal of it out there to make it seem extensive (IE: shot gunning).

You show beautiful pictures and say 'abundant' quite often. But the pictures of 'abundant' are minuscule when compared to the vast acres comprised of the farm belt.

What you're failing to provide is a good amount of detailed, extensive data from multiple sources.

Personally, I'm still on the fence about genetic manipulations, but considering your presentation, which I feel is wrong and unethical; if you are truly a representative of the industry, then you've just put a tick of negativity up on my count board.

Bill

[blazing star]

Driving on my vacation I saw an abundance of monarchs flying over expressways. Concrete expressways must, then, be a phenomenal habitat for monarchs.

Paul sells pesticides. It is also evident that he has some financial interest, and receives income, from activity with GM Crop. I say this as he sites evidence backing his posts all from sources funded by Monsanto. Also, he posts hundreds of pictures backing up his claims but NONE of these pictures can be at all tied with any of the information he is claiming to support. I don't even bother to open his links or view his pictures any more as all his posts are aligned as above. What a time waster.

Let us now return to our regularly scheduled programming:

For those new to this thread, please see all posts on this thread. Paul uses biased data (pro GM data from GM manufacturers) for his data that he posts concerning GM crops.

[blazing star]

The only point of disagreement seems to be when Jim said: "Those clustering Monarchs most certainly did not grow up in those fields, and Paul knows it." But I never claimed the clustering monarchs grew up in the GM fields. I claimed they grow up in the GM crop margins. Here is a repeat of my very first post on this topic where I showed photos of newly emerged monarchs in the GM field margins:

Please post the scientific evidence supporting your claim.

[Paul Cherubini]

Please post the scientific evidence supporting your claim.[that the clustering monarchs grow up in the GM crop margins

I've already posted many photos of caterpillars and newly emerged adults along the GMO crop margins in early-mid-August, BEFORE migrants from the north have arrived in the area. And as I said before, I am not aware of any monarch experts who have stated monarch adults and caterpillars are no longer abundant along the margins of the GMO corn and soybean fields or no longer able to complete their egg to adult cycle (by the thousands) along these margins. Are you aware of any? `

[blazing star]

You continually post data funded by those entities that support your bent and never post any data from sources that are funded by unbiased controlled studies. You've lost credibility for any one to take anything you report at face value.....especially by merely posting a few pictures for which no one can glean any information about the farm, how the crop is raised and the methods used, the actual number of monarch larvae surviving to maturity at these sites, that the photo is not amended etc.

[Paul Cherubini]

NABA's 13th annual July Iowa City Butterfly Count results came in today and they further confirm that monarchs are still abundant in Iowa even though Iowa is the State with the most concentrated acreage of GMO corn and soybeans:

http://www.naba.org/sightings/Archives/ ... chives.htm

July 21, 2001: 16 monarchs
July 27, 2002: 24 monarchs
July 31, 2004: 28 monarchs
July 15, 2006: 38 monarchs
July 26, 2008: 83 monarchs
July 19, 2009: 40 monarchs
July 25, 2010: 76 monarchs
July 30, 2011: 41 monarchs

[blazing star]

Your photos are not evidence that monarchs are abundant on GM Farmland. I can capture an imagine of a couple tornadoes occurring in the same state but to extrapolate that they are "abundant" would be absurd.

[Paul Cherubini]

Your photos are not evidence that monarchs are abundant on GM Farmland. I can capture an imagine of a couple tornadoes occurring in the same state but to extrapolate that they are "abundant" would be absurd.

Yesturday I visited the GM Farmland surrounding Hutchinson, Minnesota and took multiple videos with sound of the abundant male monarchs patrolling the milkweed growing along the gravel farm roads that border the GM crops. Also videos of egg laying females and caterpillars. This afternoon I am doing the same in the GM croplands that surround Morris, Minnesota. The monarchs are so common in these GM farmlands right now that I can collect road kill specimens for Tyler Flockhart's isotope research.

[Mona Miller]

If Tyler is smart he will not use any of your specimens, God only know where the heck you got them. Paul your data is not trustworthy. Paul, I've seen way too much discrepancy in your posts, pictures, and "sound" for video, what the heck does that mean. Sound can be edited too. Too bad you have put yourself in a position of people not trusting your information.

[Paul Cherubini]

Paul your data is not trustworthy. Paul, I've seen way too much discrepancy in your posts, pictures, and "sound" for video, what the heck does that mean. Sound can be edited too. Too bad you have put yourself in a position of people not trusting your information.

"Sound" = me talking during the videos saying things like: "wow, look at the three frogs that just jumped out of the grass growing next to the Roundup Ready soybeans." Or "here's a female monarch laying eggs on milkweeds next to GMO corn" Or here's a male patrolling milkweed that's surrounded by miles and miles of GMO corn and soybean monocultures." But you'll have to wait until Aug. 7 before I can post any of these videos to Journey North, etc.

No need to take my word for it that monarchs are abundant on the GMO farmlands of the upper midwest this year. Someone on Journey North recently reported 30 monarchs crossing the highway on a 3 hour drive between Sioux Falls, South Dakota and Albert Lea, Minnesota - an area that's smack in the middle of GMO farmland.

30 monarchs in 3 hours - where else in the USA area so many monarchs being reported right now?

[Mona Miller]

Paul,

You don't seem to get it. I don't believe a word you have to say anymore.

What did Ba Rea have to say about you recently:

"Paul is brilliant, with an incredible wealth of information about monarchs, which I deeply respect. [But, for several years his data is not trustworthy.] But he loves controversy, accusation and setting up interesting red herrings even more. He regularly blurs lines of truth (usually by omission of important information so that he can stand back and let us do the damage) in order to attack scientists, support his theses or defend HIS work as an insect exterminator." [I think she hit it straight on the nail head.]

http://basrelief.org/Pages/ba.html
In case you are curious, who Ba is I have posted her website.

[blazing star]

I don't care how many pictures you capture of monarchs on GM Farmland. Pictures do nothing to change the bottom line that GM Farmland does not serve as suitable habitat for any life stage of the monarch butterfly. GM crops, in no way, contribute to the life of a monarch caterpillar. Contrarily, they reduce monarch habitat required for the evolution of the full of a monarch's life.

[Paul Cherubini]

Here is independent confirmation that monarchs are abundant in GMO farmland this summer: See this Journey North report: http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1312392481
Here is a map (see the red line) showing the person drove right through the heart of the herbicide tolerant BT corn and soybean growing area of extreme southern Minnesota and observed 30 monarchs in 3 hours on August 1:

[blazing star]

Useless, again, Paul. Yes, we are all bright enough to know that monarchs fly through the air above and around all land. Yes, a monarch may visit GM farmland but GM farmland does not provide any real suitable habitat for any life stage of the monarch butterfly. Posting the same useless information does not mean the data is any more legitimate.

The irony of all of your posts is that, yes, monarchs may still be abundant on GM farmland as monarchs have to search harder for suitable habitat on which to lay eggs and reproduce since the GM farmland destroyed their habitat.

[Paul Cherubini]

The irony of all of your posts is that, yes, monarchs may still be abundant on GM farmland as monarchs have to search harder for suitable habitat on which to lay eggs and reproduce since the GM farmland destroyed their habitat.

The corn plants grow so tall nowadays and are so closely spaced together that female monarchs don't look for milkweed growing deep under the canopy of the corn crop. The females search for milkweed growing along the margins of the corn and soybean crops as you can see in these videos:
CORN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKmDId55pfc
SOYBEAN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MqrvAxTl0I

The females are successful in finding sufficient milkweed because by mid-late August each year lots of newly emerged monarchs with soft wings like these can be seen in these GMO crop margin areas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d8abPhdly0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXkrf7eZw5k

These newly emerged monarchs also find abundant nectar plants growing along the GMO crop margins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVLHprXt3JA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6wnMVo0bdc

And in the evening these butterflies form large clusters in the vicinity of the GMO crops like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4e3S2sm13g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJCnU7PB9to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDxKwEgsjPc

[blazing star]

Monarch butterflies are still abundant on highway roads! Check out this blog!

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=monarchs ... 9,r:14,s:0

I'm so very excited to learn that monarch butterflies are now abundant on GM Farmland and on Roads! Forever they will now be saved!

[blazing star]

http://www.raw-wisdom.com/50harmful.

[Paul Cherubini]

First overnight roost of this season has formed on GMO cropland (as I predicted yesturday at Padua, Minnesota):
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1313074504

[blazing star]

The Poster talks about her "trees" supporting the roost. She also talks about how a lot of her trees that supported the roost were damaged in a storm. Nowhere does she talk about GMO Crops supporting the roost. If you look at the map, there's a lone house with a ton of trees where the roost was resting. Thank goodness for her island of tree habitat or they'd have to keep migrating until they find a place to rest.

It's good to see you're coming around and posting data that shows how much GM Crops displace the monarch habitat that previously resided in these areas. That aerial view definitively shows how much acreage was stolen from monarch habitat.

[Paul Cherubini]

This aerial photo of Winthrop, Minnesota shows what's going on. The roosts are located in ornamental shade trees that are found in the residential yards of small GMO farm towns like Winthrop, MN or in ornamental shade trees that surround the farm homes that are located in the middle of GMO corn and soybean fields. During the daytime, multitudes of new monarchs emerge from their chrysalids along the GMO crop margins and roadsides and in the evening or on windy days these butterflies fly to the ornamental shade trees and form roosts .


Here's a video of the same exact roost in Winthrop, Minnesota that's shown on the map above that I took a year ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJCnU7PB9to

Thus we see that GMO croplands provide everything the monarchs could want:
1) Abundant milkweed along the GMO field margins and roadsides
2) Abundant nectar along the GMO field margins and roadsides
3) Abundant roost sites in the residential yards, city parks and cemeteries of GMO farm towns and in the ornamental trees that surround GMO farm homes

[blazing star]

Like I saw, the last remaining island of trees is the only place where the monarchs are since the GMO cropland has displaced them to the last tiny remaining island of suitable habitat. I'm really grateful that you're starting to see the light! Thanks, Paul.

[Paul Cherubini]

No, there are many, many more roost sites shown in my aerial photo above that are located in other residential yards in the town of Winthrop and in the windbreak trees that surround farm homes. I just marked one roost site since it's the one that corresponds with this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJCnU7PB9to

In other words, these GMO farmlands of southern Minnesota collectively contain hundreds and hundreds of roost sites each of which are occupied by hundreds or thousands of monarchs in late August and early September.

[blazing star]

I just looked at the video. You're getting very good at seeing the issue now. I see that the monarchs, int he current video you posted, are relegated to a cemetery with the last remaining trees outside the boundary of, and without GM Cropland in sight. Thanks, again, for finally coming around to see the light!

[Paul Cherubini]

The video shows clusters in trees in a residential yard with a cemetery in the background. The photo below shows this roost site and the cemetery to the west of the roost site. The whole town of Winthrop is surrounded by miles and miles of GMO crops. And even though the tree cover on the cemetery itself is sparse, there were clusters there too and I have that photo too if you want to see it

[blazing star]

Yeah, you're right. The monarchs were in the cemetery and the trees in the cemetery and not in the GM cropland. Very good observation, but one I made earlier in the thread.

[Paul Cherubini]

My map shows GMO crops right across the street from the cemetery. I have other still photos and video of clusters right next to the GMO crops. Like the bottom two pictures in this posting:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1284750130

Like Mona Miller says, I am the only person taking these photos and videos of the abundant monarchs on GMO farmland so the general public has a very difficult time believing they could be real. Thousands of farmers know they are real, but only 2% of all people in the USA are farmers.

[blazing star]

I have no idea what you're talking about as none of your "evidence" shows monarchs in GM Croplands. ALL of your evidence shows that monarchs are reduced to using small island sections of habitat not destroyed by GM Cropland. Nice try, though.

You must exhaust yourself trying to make evidence fit your "opinion" just so you feel more comfortable killing living things. Have fun with that!

[blazing star]

Mona, notice he's trying to draw you in now. Ha ha. He can't control himself and it's now evident he's an attention seeker.