Rearing in a large tank?

[alletahg]

In the past, I've used plastic cups to rear monarchs. I started with a few cats to a cup, then eventually had one per cup as they grew. The most we've raised at once is 25, simply because of a lack of space.

Well, last fall I saw a very large glass tank in someone's lawn with a big "free" sign on it. I grabbed it up thinking it would be good for raising larger numbers of monarchs. Now that I'm finding many, many eggs, I am trying to figure out if the tank will really work. Couple of questions:

How can I easily and cheaply make a lid for the tank? Ideally the tank would be in a sheltered area of our deck, but the lid/cover needs to be predator proof and also give easy access for cleaning and feeding.

Will the larger caterpillars eat the smaller ones if they have plenty of food and space? Seriously, this tank is huge. It's the kind of think you'd put a gigantic snake in, or a full grown iguana. Or alligator.

Is this doable, or should I stick with cups and put the tank out in MY lawn for someone else to take home?

[Mona Miller]

You have to separate eggs from caterpillars or the caterpillars will eat the eggs. You have to separate the larger caterpillars from the smaller ones. Can you disinfect this tank between broods? How easy would it be to keep the frass (poop) cleaned up? Is there any type of lid?

You can use door screen (parasite proof) to make a lid--you can get it at the hardware store. But, you would need some type of frame. Whatever you get, it has to fit tightly because wasp or flies will get in.

Be careful about the location that you put it. Glass conducts heat and you may fry your caterpillars or pupa. The problem that I have had with large containers is what do you do with the pupae that are attached to the lid when you need to clean it out or add new food.

[alletahg]

Those were a lot of my concerns as well. I think what I'll do is use cups until the caterpillars are at that third instar stage, then transfer them to the tank. I can line the bottom with paper towels, which will make it easy to remove frass.

I'm also thinking of using a section of plywood to divide the tank into two areas and using one of those areas only for cats ready to pupate. I'm planning on picking up some mesh to attach to the sides so any butterflies that fall can easily climb back up. Cleaning between broods shouldn't be too difficult.

Finally, I decided just to keep the tank inside. I have a mister I can use to keep the whole setup from being too dry in the AC. I actually found a large window screen that escaped the dumpster after we replaced our windows last year, and it fits over the tank very well. If I put the tank outside, I'd be too worried about it all! Last night I browsed around the forums here and got some very good ideas, so I'll try this and see how it goes!

[Mona Miller]

Just don't put the tank in direct sun inside.

Don't you just love this forum.

Be careful there is one person who keeps pushing pesticides and herbicides. I wish that he'd get with the program and stop trying to be a spokesman for Monsanto.

[alletahg]

No direct sun, and I'm really please with the setup I came up with! Of course, I only have six cats in there now, so we'll see how workable it is once the 40-some eggs I have hatch and grow up a bit. I'll try to post a picture.

I did what you suggested for the aphids, and just cut those stalks off and submerged them in a bucket of soapy water. Better safe than sorry! Most of the milkweed I use actually comes from a nearby park where they do not use any kind of spray. My four little plants aren't enough to feed all the critters we bring home!

[Mona Miller]

Let me know how your milkweed is doing. I hate, hate, hate aphids.

I've been reading about them in my Insect Life class. Some do winter over if it doesn't get cold enough. They hatch from eggs laid in plant debris. Then the show begins and they don't even need a male to do it. She, all of them are she at this point starts popping out those babies. Then, later winged aphids appear and off they go to populate the world. In the fall, males start appearing and mate with the females who lay the eggs for next year. It is recommended that debris around plants be removed. But, be careful, a lot of our native butterflies winter over in our gardens.

[sbannister]

I have used tanks successfully in the past and one trick I used for cleaning out the frass was to use paper towels and those really cheap paper plates on top of that. The plates catch most of the frass and are easier to pick up quickly. Then toss them, just be sure to check that no little one is hiding on the bottom to molt! If so, you can tear that section off carefully and replace it in the tank then toss the rest.

I would be afraid to use them outside becasue the glass might get really hot if the sun hit it.

Now I prefer using the mesh enclosures outside because I can used potted plants and the cats and flys seem bigger and a little more robust. But the tanks work, too, so good luck!!!

[blazing star]

I use a glass aquarium as well. It came with a lid but the holes in the screening were large enough for small cats to escape so I taped regular window screen below it. The cats attach themselves to it but I still raise other caterpillars. I am just careful when lifting the lid.

Are you able to fashion a lid from window screen as well?

I use paper towels on the bottom to collect frass. While holding the lid I remove all cats and change the towel. Put the lid back on and transfer cats to fresh leaves, remove lid and put fresh material and cats in and I'm done.

I keep my aquarium in a hutch since my cat loves eating anything that moves. It's indoors and away from direct sun.

I have eggs in with my large cats and they've never bothered, or eaten, the eggs but I make sure to always have plenty of leaves per cat per stage. I found that if the eggs leaves are nowhere close to where cats cannot reach over, they won't travel there. I guess your mileage may vary, though. Mona would know best since she rears so many for so long.

[Mona Miller]

Hatchlings who hatch first may crawl over and eat another egg after they eat theirs.

Larger caterpillars don't have very good eye sight and will plow through any thing that is in front of them--even leaves with eggs on them.

[sbannister]

I'm sure that happens, but I have seen where a cat has eaten a leaf right up to the egg and stopped!

[Mona Miller]

http://www.butterflyfunfacts.com/monarc ... lkweed.php
Video, Monarch Caterpillar eats a Monarch egg.

Why would you want to take a chance that the eggs would get eaten, if you could just move them to another container to keep them safe. I watch the eggs hatching in a separate container and move hatchlings to a first instar container (new hatchlings will go over and eat another egg).

I keep at least 3 containers to separate the small, medium, and large caterpillars. Large caterpillars have also been known to eat pupae.

After they have dried, I remove Monarch pupae from the container where other large caterpillars are munching. It is easy to remove them. Just wait until they are dry. At least a day and then spray them with water to loosen the silk. Carefully, pull (you can do this with a stick pin (but don't stick the pupae) the silk. I then push the stick pin through the silk (not the cremaster or pupae). Pinned pupae are hung in a net cage (in case they fall, they can climb back up the sides). I weave the stick pin on the inside of the net container (always, always keep the sharp end out of the container. Weave a couple of times, pushing the sharp point on the outside of the container. And, I always use the stick pins with the plastic heads. I get my stick pins in lots of 500 at Michael's Craft store.

Don't overcrowd your containers. I'm raising 4-6 in the larger Glad containers. They are 13 cup containers.

[sbannister]

Oh, I agree, Mona. I don't keep them together. I meant I have seen this on outside plants. I don't keep the eggs together with the cats.

[Mona Miller]

Did you see them eating up to the egg or was the egg laid on a half eaten leaf?

[sbannister]

I have seen them eat around the egg.

[Mona Miller]

Interesting. The caterpillars are all different individuals. I remember reading in Dr. Urquhart's book, I think it was "Monarch Butterfly, International Traveler" how some of the Monarchs they raised had distinct personalities and he ended up giving those caterpillars names.

[sbannister]

LOL! I believe it. They never cease to amaze me!

[alletahg]

So far, the big tank is working really well! Plenty of room for all the cats, and the separate area for pupa is working well. I took a picture when I first set it up, but it looks nicer now that it's full of milkweed. The leaves in the photo are droopy because (silly me) I took the photo before putting in fresh plants!

Anyway, it's not a great picture, but you can see how there's a "room" at one end of the tank, made from a mesh laundry bag. When the cats start to wander, I move them to that side. So far seven of them have formed a chrysalis. The bottom of the entire tank is lined with paper towels for easy frass removal, and the stalks of milkweed are standing in florist foam with the ends wrapped in a damp paper towel. I keep the cats in small plastic tubs until about the third instar, the move them to the tank. The lid is just an extra window screen placed on top.

Since the tank was free, the rest of the setup cost less than ten dollars. The paper towels are probably the most expensive part of the whole thing.

[Mona Miller]

Looks great. Just make sure you disinfect at some point. I usually wash my plastic and net container between broods. The plastic containers get a good scrubbing on the pot cycle (with the heat cycle turned off (it melts plastics) and an extra rinse. Then I rinse them again before I use them. The net containers are either sprayed or soaked in a bleach solution and then rinse thoroughly. I keep reminding myself that butterflies do not speak so we have to take care of their needs as best we can.

[kristin10152001]

Great photo, I am looking for ideas on raising cats in small spaces this sure does help

[Sueinma]

I have reared most all of my cats in clear plastic boxes that used to have salad mix, they are about the size of a shoe box. Occasionally I've used the Glad containers. I use a glass aquarium tank for the pupae and eclosures. Monarchs pupate in their container then I move the chrysalises to the aquarium tank. After the Black and Spicebush swallowtails purge, then I move them to the aquarium with a leafy stick to pupate.

My tank is only about 10 gallons though, not as big as your tank. I find it somewhat heavy and cumbersome to move around and clean, so I don't think I'd want a bigger tank.

I also just bought a pop up enclosure because a female Monarch laid tons of eggs on the milkweed last week. I've collected 75 eggs and plan to raise the small cats in the containers, and then move some or most of them to enclosure when they get bigger to grow on.

[lcbergan]

Once had cat go up to the top of tank. Thought he was going to J, but instead ate the chrysalis already hanging. This year trying cut off 2 liter bottles topped with paper towel and rubber band to close. Sides not sloped so need to form on paper towel. Free, recycling, and I can toss when done to prevent contamination year to year. When chrysalis formed, can move paper towel to flight cage I made from large diaper box, cutting out sides and using plastic wrap windows.

[Mona Miller]

I'd love to see a photo!