Let's talk about Monarchs!
Moderator: Monarch Watch
Paul Cherubini wrote:
Mona Miller wrote: 4. What happens to the Malathion that has been rinsed off. It is on the ground and any storms will wash it into the aquifers, which will harm other wildlife..
alletahg wrote:What about insecticidal soap? I have some but haven't used it on the milkweed. One of my plants has a lot of aphids; if I spray them with the insecticidal soap, will it harm any monarch eggs that are laid on that plant? The label isn't much help. It just says to fully cover insects with the soap in order to kill them.
Mona Miller wrote: I had such a bad problem last year with aphids. This year, I'm trimming tops, squishing, and trying to make sure I watch those aphids. They multiply very fast.
Mona Miller wrote:Rachel Carson wrote about how insects build up a tolerance to pesticides in her book "Silent Spring".
Mona Miller wrote:There has been no testing done on Monarchs that were raised on milkweeds sprayed with Malathion. This is one of the questions that I asked Edith Smith that she did not answer. I asked Edith if the University of Mississippi had tested her Monarchs for traces of Malathion.
Mona Miller wrote:Health. I guess you really don't know what you are talking about do you.
Paul Cherubini wrote:And don't forget Malathion is also approved for use on childrens heads
Paul Cherubini wrote:The Environmental Working Group is a .org advocacy group, not a government agency so it's recommendations are just private opinions, not government agency recommendations.
blazing star wrote: Kinda like you saying pesticides (which are known to kill living things) are safe is just a private opinion in that it comes from a man who reads blogs and uses that information to form his opinion which is contrary to that of a collective opinion of scientists that specifically study the matter. Is that what you mean by private opinion?
Mona Miller wrote:You go from starting problems on one list to poking people to start problems on another list. Read this new piece of information that I found out about you know who:
Four Wings and a Prayer: Caught in the Mystery of the Monarch Butterfly By Sue Halpern
blazing star wrote: He posts a huge tent of monarchs and then declares that large monarch breeders use his toxic killing compounds. How does this picture prove his statement? It doesn't.
Paul Cherubini wrote:blazing star wrote: He posts a huge tent of monarchs and then declares that large monarch breeders use his toxic killing compounds. How does this picture prove his statement? It doesn't.
In a post above I posted a huge tent of MILKWEED (not monarchs) and I stated that the large monarch breeder who owns that tent uses Malathion on the milkweed to control aphids. The reason I know this is true is because the breeder in question had me come over to his farm to advise him on how to control the aphids.
Likewise on Dec. 19 & 20, 2007, Edith Smith, owner of perhaps the largest monarch breeding farm in the eastern USA wrote the following on the "'Butterfly farmers and enthusiasts mailing list'" <firstname.lastname@example.org> "We use Malathion all the time. We have dunked milkweed into mixed Malathion and fed it directly to caterpillars, they pupated, and emerged with no problems."
Then I posted these two links that show two more large breeders use Malathion to control aphids:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... w/pmba.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... w/pmbb.jpg
Collectively, this shows that four large breeders use Malathion and are pleased with it's effectiveness against aphids while not being harmful to monarch caterpillars. And three of those four breeders have been willing to publicly state they use Malathion.
Mona Miller wrote: But, what you didn't post was my question to Edith on whether she had her Monarchs tested to make sure there were no ill effects.
Mona Miller wrote: You know what I wonder. The Desert Museum has been buying hundreds of Monarchs from a CA butterfly farmer and tagging and releasing them since 2003? How has that affect the local population? They have also been adding milkweed to the area. How has that affect the local population of milkweed? Seems to me like they are building up an artificial population in that area due to their releases and milkweed plantings?
Paul Cherubini wrote:Mona Miller wrote: You know what I wonder. The Desert Museum has been buying hundreds of Monarchs from a CA butterfly farmer and tagging and releasing them since 2003? How has that affect the local population? They have also been adding milkweed to the area. How has that affect the local population of milkweed? Seems to me like they are building up an artificial population in that area due to their releases and milkweed plantings?
Are you saying you are opposed to increasing monarch numbers via releases and milkweed plantings?
No butterfly farmers, to my knowledge, have reported adult butterfly health, developmental or egg productivity problems when the caterpillars were fed Malathion treated milkweed generation after generation. If use of Malathion resulted in short lived, low egg production butterflies, butterfly farmers would obviously not want to use them for breeding as they would deminish farm profits. But Edith, like other butterfly farmers, have not reported health, egg production or developmental deformity consequences when they fed their caterpillars Malathion treated milkweed generation after generation for 10+ years.Mona Miller wrote:Questions for Edith Smith on the Use of Malathion on Milkweed to kill Aphids (I need clarification of a few things):
3. Have your Monarchs been tested for Malathion levels by MS or any other organization?
6. Has MS tested or given information or have you inquired about whether you use of Malathion could cause genetic or health problems with the Monarchs that you are raising?
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