Round up kills

[Mona Miller]

Cross posted from dplex (Monarch Watch email list serve) http://www.monarchwatch.org/dplex/index.htm
In case you are interested in instant or digest information--I've posted the website for subscribing above.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=a ... =inline&zw
This is Common milkweed killed by Roundup in a field of Roundup Ready soybeans. I have seen examples every year now for nearly 10 years.
Gary Stell
Auburn, NY"

[Paul Cherubini]

Gary Stell never said milkweed and monarchs are no longer abundant along the margins of Roundup treated farmlands.

Indeed, a great irony is that the areas of the USA where Roundup and other agrochemicals are used most intensively (e.g. southern Minnesota and Iowa) are also the areas where monarchs are the most abundant as these Journey North postings from small farm towns in southern Minnesota (that are surrounded by Roundup treated crops) last August show:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1284750130
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1284750334
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1284750241
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1284750303

This coming season I will be armed with a high quality video camera that can take sharp detailed videos like this one http://www.vimeo.com/25382561 of the abundant monarchs on GMO farmlands.

[Mona Miller]

Forget it Paul. We all know your techniques are not trustworthy. We've seen way too much of your manipulation of data, facts, photos, and video. We know that you are pro herbicides and pesticides.

Get a grip. We all know that if you take away the milkweed, that the Monarchs go away. They may migrate across an area, but would not be using an area without milkweed for breeding.

[Paul Cherubini]

Get a grip. We all know that if you take away the milkweed, that the Monarchs go away. They may migrate across an area, but would not be using an area without milkweed for breeding.

The milkweed has not been taken away from the Roundup growing areas. That's why 5-10 minute long videos will be necesssary to demonstrate this to non-believers. Around Aug. 3-5 I will drive along farm roads in southern Minnesota with the high definition video camera rolling showing all the milkweed and monarchs that are present and breeding next to the Roundup treated crops in mid-summer before the migration has started.

[Mona Miller]

But, we can't believe anything your posts. You have lost your credibility with all the false material that you have been posting. Video can be edited. Don't you get it.

[Paul Cherubini]

But, we can't believe anything your posts. Video can be edited. Don't you get it.

My videos this year will be clear, high definition ones like this one I took today http://vimeo.com/26119936 of monarchs patrolling, laying eggs, clustering, etc., in their natural habitats - including Roundup Ready corn and soybean habitats - where no reasonable person would say they are not authentic. They will be considered legitimate, unedited videos by Elizabeth Howard at Journey North and she will welcome them as she always has.

[Mona Miller]

Darn it. Who cares about the definition. We can't trust any thing you post. You have totally lost your credibility on this list and many others.

[Paul Cherubini]

Get a grip. We all know that if you take away the milkweed, that the Monarchs go away. They may migrate across an area, but would not be using an area without milkweed for breeding.

The Monarch was the most abundant butterfly recorded on a very recent (July 24) NABA Butterfly Count in Iowa:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... ickiup.jpg

And Iowa, ironically, is the state with the most concentrated acreage of herbicide tolerant corn and soybeans. A whopping 69% of Iowa's landmass is covered with those two crops and yet monarchs continue to be abundant.

The NABA count data above shows the monarchs breed abundantly in Iowa in mid-summer, hence it is fully understandable why big clusters containing 100's or 1000's of butterflies can be seen in Iowa in September each year.

[Mona Miller]

This makes me sick. I am so tired of your pesticide/herbicide agenda. You have ruined any reputation that you used to have for credible information on the Monarch migration or any other information.

I hope the big pesticide/herbicide corporations realize that Paul Cherubini is not a reliable source of information on the wildlife affected by pesticides/herbicides.

I hope the EPA knows that Paul Cherubini is not a reliable source of information on the wildlife affected by pesticides/herbicides.

I hope the public in general (most of us do) knows that Paul Cherubini is not a reliable source of information on the wildlife affected by pesticides/herbicides.

[Paul Cherubini]

But, we can't believe anything your posts. You have lost your credibility with all the false material that you have been posting. Video can be edited. Don't you get it.

I'm not following what you mean by "false material" and "video can be edited". Here's an example: Please tell me and everyone on the forum specifically what is "false" or what has been "edited" in this still image of one of my recent videos and the actual video:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1312749859

[Mona Miller]

I'll just keep posting this until you, the forum members, and the world (this forum comes up frequently when I do search) know:

Ba Rea wrote this about Paul Cherubini:

"Paul is brilliant, with an incredible wealth of information about monarchs, which I deeply respect. [But, for several years his data is not trustworthy.] But he loves controversy, accusation and setting up interesting red herrings even more. He regularly blurs lines of truth (usually by omission of important information so that he can stand back and let us do the damage) in order to attack scientists, support his theses or defend HIS work as an insect exterminator." [I think she hit it straight on the nail head.]

http://basrelief.org/Pages/ba.html
In case you are curious, who Ba is I have posted her website.

[blazing star]

Paul,

Again, your pictures do nothing but indicate that a monarch visited a road side milkweed. So what? I think we're all bright enough to know that a monarch may visit a road side milkweed. The question is, did the eggs she laid hatch and produce viable offspring or did the sprayed pesticides kill the cats and the monarch herself. Your pictures, in summary, are useless.

[Paul Cherubini]

The question is, did the eggs she laid hatch and produce viable offspring or did the sprayed pesticides kill the cats and the monarch herself.

Yes, it's routine to see monarch caterpillars on the milkweed plants that grow up against the herbicide tolerant soybeans and BT corn. Like these caterpillars (watch the video):
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1312825564

If sprayed pesticides were frequently killing these caterpillars then it would be hard instead of easy to find them on milkweed plants that grow up against the GMO crops. And if the adults produced from these caterpillars were not producing viable offspring then the adults would not be abundant by the first week of August like they are this year:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1312766867
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1312763481
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1312749859

[Mona Miller]

Paul,

You must think that we don't read your stuff and look up what you posts. You must think that we forget all the misinformation that you have posted on this forum and every where else (all the list serves that you are on all over the United States). You must keep forgetting because you keep posting the same old information.