For the Monarchs and my freinds at Monarch Watch

[crazymilkweedman]

I am including the link to my blog trekkingohio. For any of you who are interested in my reports of observations,studies and experiments I plan to make with the Monarch threat invader Black Swallow-wort.Please keep in mind I am an Amateur Botanist, soo any helpful suggestions and ideas as well as the observations of others is more than welcome. I plan a few experiments such as growth habit studies, oviposition of Monarch egg studies and survival of larva studies with this plant and will report as best i can, as often as I can to hopefully add to our knowledge of this threat and thereby assist the Monarchs.
Respectfully,
Michael Bartneck.
http://trekkingohio.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -wort.html

[Mona Miller]

As far as I know, the black swallow-wort is deadly to Monarchs. Just like the dogbane. It is too toxic. But, it doesn't hurt to check it out.

[crazymilkweedman]

toxicity is proven, what are the average number of larva which survive? any? what is the average number of eggs oviposited and are thay all wasted?in a BSW infestation of 1sq meter how many eggs are lost ? how about 40sq meters? Will the dogbane leaf beetle feed on BSW? will BSW have as much success distracting females in an area where dogbane is abundant? would the Monarch female lay fewer eggs on the BSW if more good milkweed were present or does the percentage remain the same?Ofcoarse its worth checking out..your comment suprises me?????????????????

[Paul Cherubini]

Wikipedia says "The best chemical management over Cynanchum louiseae is through the use of systemic herbicides. Systemic herbicides prevent seeds from being viable and, as a result, the next generation will not exist. Garlon 4 (tridopyr ester) and RoundUp Pro (glyphosate) are the main systemic herbicides that are used to control Cynanchum louiseae." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynanchum_louiseae

So it's kind of ironic that products from Monsanto and Dow Chemical will help preserve milkweed and monarchs.

[Mona Miller]

toxicity is proven, what are the average number of larva which survive? any? what is the average number of eggs oviposited and are thay all wasted?in a BSW infestation of 1sq meter how many eggs are lost ? how about 40sq meters? Will the dogbane leaf beetle feed on BSW? will BSW have as much success distracting females in an area where dogbane is abundant? would the Monarch female lay fewer eggs on the BSW if more good milkweed were present or does the percentage remain the same?Ofcoarse its worth checking out..your comment suprises me?????????????????

There's not much data out there. I did a little searching. There are other butterflies that have host plant confusion with exotics. The Virginia White usually uses toothworth, but is attracted to the garlic mustard which is toxic to its caterpillars. Pipevine Swallowtails will lay on Aristolochia elegans, but will not survive on it.

Anyone that has ever fed dogbane by mistake to Monarchs will tell you that the caterpillar may eat a few bites, but will not survive on it. We do not have swallow-wort in my state.

[crazymilkweedman]

lol..there are botanists and naturalists with alot of confusion out ther too! If you take the time to read the umteen posts regarding BSW,PSW and WSW , there are literally hundreds of mixed,confused,contradicting and obscure descriptions and photos out there.I mean the fact that a part time amateur like me finds a major Monarch threat the BSW where its not listed by the usda is a joke..what are all those big shots at DNR,AG and Forestry getting paid(with our tax money) to do exactly???I'm done posting for awhile. How can they begin to know the negative impact on Monarchs if they dont know the enemy??? I mean ol Skip doesnt even bother to return emails from people who give a crap, but he's got time to stick a tracking device up a butterfly's arse an track it to where he knows its already going!!You guys can jibber jabber all day long about breeding seasons movements an all the rest, but if you don't get off ur dead arses and start doing the primary thing,SAVING THE MILKWEEDS, all the rest is just a mute point! And you'll have to change the name of this org to "Watching non migrating Monarchs in the southern US".org...Analyize that!

[Mona Miller]

Excuse me, I don't think you've looked it all the information on this forum. There are plenty of people interested in every aspect of Monarchs, especially milkweeds. Plenty of times I've said, "No milkweed, no Monarchs." I myself have been out rescuing milkweeds. Plus if you signed up for the main list serve, you'd reach more people:
http://www.monarchwatch.org/dplex/index.htm
"Dplex-L is the name of our electronic mailing list and discussion group on the Internet. If you have an internet Email account, you can join in!"

Monarch Watch wrote in the 2004 newsletter about the swallow-wort culprit:
http://www.monarchwatch.org/update/2004 ... wwort.html

Put "swallow-wort" in the http://www.google.com search. Many states have literature, too.
http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourc ... D5CA&start

Here are fact sheets from Conservation and Forest Service:

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/cylo1.htm
This is the federal government for Black Swallow-wort (Cynanchum louiseae).
Under Ecological threat:
" Investigations into impacts on the monarch butterfly, which requires milkweeds for reproduction, indicate that the butterfly will cue into black swallow-wort and lay eggs, but the larvae do not survive."

There is also a Pale Swallow-wort (Cynanchum rossicum). I do not know if this is toxic to Monarchs.
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/cyro1.htm

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/fhp/invasive_pl ... w-wort.pdf
National Forest Service, Black Swallow-wort
“There is also concern that monarch butterflies will oviposit on swallow-wort instead of milkweed; the hatching caterpillars cannot develop on swallow-wort.” Loss of native plant species may reduce biodiversity and delay or redirect succession as well as reduce the value of habitat to wildlife."

[Paul Cherubini]

I'm wondering how can this Swallow-wort be considered a legitimate monarch threat considering it was introduced to this country 150 year ago yet monarchs are still very abundant?

Is there even one square mile of land in the entire eastern USA where native syriaca milkweed has been crowded out by the Swallow-wort to the point where it's now rare? Or even one square mile of land where the monarch is now rare because of monarch caterpillar mortality caused by feeding on the Swallow-wort?

[crazymilkweedman]

Yes Paul there is..but don't take my word for it..take a road trip buddy..you work for that Japanese Nuclear Firm??NAH Don't worry about it! Or maybe your great grandfather used to hunt passenger pigeons and it runs in the family?" AH,we only shot a few hundred,theres millions of em!"
Connecticut:
black swallow-wort Invasive, banned
Massachusetts:
black swallow-wort, Louise's swallow-wart Prohibited
New Hampshire:
Cynanchum nigrum
black swallow-wort Prohibited invasive Species
and don't forget to stop by in Ontario!!!!!!!!and say hay to my uncle while your there.
and if you have to ask so many questions ,then please stop masquerading as some kind of expert! thanks. Which we all know your not since you already told us you can't even plant a seed that grows by itself ,right? Amateur Doer's forever,Professonal Poseur's NEVER!
And Mona , how about checking the forum stats? #1 "should Monarchs be released at weddings"..real F'n important!!

[Mona Miller]

I've released butterflies at a wedding dinner (outside), a funeral, 2 memorial services... But, you really have to plan ahead.

1. Are they native?
2. Is there habitat for them both hosts and nectar sources?
3. Is the person who is releasing them taking care of them?

A couple of nature friends were getting married and we just didn't know what to give them. The Monarch numbers were very low. I ordered a dozen Monarchs and explained to the person in MA what we were doing. They actually sent us another dozen. We released some at the park and some during the reception dinner, which was held outside. Their yard was a butterfly paradise. The butterflies floated from flower to flower during dinner and some of them stayed around for a good two weeks.

One of the memorial services was for a school gathering after the Virginia Tech shooting. We had two alumni killed in that event. I had been raising Painted Ladies with the special education science class. We had not gotten to release the butterflies due to the weather. It just happened that this was a perfect time. It was such a beautiful, spiritual addition to the event. Many of the students said the butterflies helped to grieve.

I don't raise butterflies commercially. I raise them for conservation.

If you are asking me whether I condone releasing butterflies, I would say it depends on the situation.

[crazymilkweedman]

I was not asking you that. I was saying if you look at the forum stats under conservation, the number one #1 topic with over 9000 posts is butterfly weddings....butterfly weddings is glamor and drama, glamour and drama always trumps mud and sweat..for the same reason more Americans watch the "Housewives" reality TV than the Discovery channel..and so it goes that a forum on a conservation website's most popular topic is butterfly weddings INSTEAD of something that actually matters. but never mind..keep doing your good work an I'LL keep getting muddy and sweaty...and Paul can keep wasting everyone's time.peace!

[Mona Miller]

I get muddy and sweaty, too. Anyone that is out gardening does. I also love going out roaming the hills looking for butterflies and plants.

[crazymilkweedman]

Thats really nice!mona
here Paul, some extirpated native syriaca acres for ya

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3DsSYDg0A8w/Ta2lh3CrslI/AAAAAAAAAKs/d33vf0VXQ24/s1600/paleSwalwortInfes.jpg