How do you check cats for OE

[David Calhoun]

I know how to tape the adults to check for OE,but can it also be checked in the cats? I know that if they fail to thrive, that may be a clue, but can you check the frass under a microscope to see if there is OE in the frass?

[skates4marty]

Shows what they look like but not how to test:

http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2007/11/o ... llars.html

[Wyvern]

Shows what they look like but not how to test:

http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2007/11/o ... llars.html

That is a pretty good guide to give someone an idea of what to look for in a cat that *might* be infected. However, the problem I have with the site is with the promotion of killing the caterpillars needlessly without knowing for a fact that it is infected with OE or not. There have been plenty of "dirty" cats that I have raised that eclosed healthy and OE free and plenty of "perfect" cats that emerged as adults covered in OE spores. It's not a fool-proof method of early detection. I much rather isolate questionable cats into individual rearing containers and test the adult butterfly than kill a cat that could potentially not have had anything wrong with it in the first place.


The frass testing might be a worthwhile experiment. I did collect a bunch of cats today that come from an area known to have OE present.. I can try playing around tomorrow at work with some wet smears and see what comes up. The only drawback is that if super tiny OE sprores can be seen in the frass they may be lost amongst all the huge organic material. hmmm... now I am wondering if the OE spores would react to a fecal float solution in the same way pinworm eggs do when I test our reptiles...i.e. float to the top to be collected on the cover slip while the majority of the orangic material sinks. Yes... I think I will be having some microscope fun tomorrow LOLOL.

[Mona Miller]

http://www.butterflyfunfacts.com/oe.php
This has more info on testing adults and some pictures of what can happen to an adults trying to emerge and how the pupa starts to color with blackish spots.

In the life cycle of the Monarch there is also a picture of a caterpillar who didn't pupate properly:
http://www.butterflyfunfacts.com/monarch.php

[skates4marty]

In the life cycle of the Monarch there is also a picture of a caterpillar who didn't pupate properly:

Looks like my stretch-mark (split-skin) C's.

[David Calhoun]

I still have some frass from cats that starved/didn't thrive/didn't pupate properly.Like Wyvern, I'll spend some time with my microscope to see if I can learn anything.

[Mona Miller]

I just had a caterpillar turn black and leak black fluid. Not every problem is OE. I think this one probably has black death.

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/butt ... 31715.html
Why does a Monarch caterpillar or chrysalis turn black?

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/butterfly/
The garden forum (butterfly) has some good info in the FAQ section.

[David Calhoun]

I don't know if it is improper to answer my own question, but I spent some time with my scope. I can see OE,and litttle plant material, in the frass of one cat that starved (he had plenty of food available). In the normal frass, there is a lot of green plant material,but no OE. There are bacteria and other microorganisms moving about, but these, with practice, can be differentiated from OE.I took some pictures, using my digital camera, but they're not so hot.

[skates4marty]

>> I can see OE >>

Nice work! On what power?

>> I took some pictures, using my digital camera, but they're not so hot. >>

I would like to see them anyway. Add to my Oe education.