Tip of abdomen stuck

[skates4marty]

This is my worst monarch day in 6 years. Today, 3 eclosed but the tips of their abdomens did not release from their C-shells.

I am sounding like a broken record but: I have never seen this before, and now I have 3 in one day??

[skates4marty]

found an old thread about this:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=795&p=10151&hilit=abdomen#p10151

[skates4marty]

And another that suggests Oe:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2013&p=9856&hilit=abdomen#p9856

[Mona Miller]

Do you have any way of testing them?

This is how things go--cycles. One year its the wasps, another diseases, and then the flies. And, then every thing hits the fan. I really look forward to spring when we can start all over and there isn't that much disease out there.

[skates4marty]

No, I'm not set up for testing, but now I have more indirect evidence -- I noticed one just now that can't zip up his proboscis -- sign of Oe, right?

One J that only partly pupated. Sign of Oe again.

Mona, I am in Maryland. Are you seeing more Oe than usual in Virginia?

[Mona Miller]

I think I had problems with NPV about a week ago. I'm not seeing any stuck pupae. I have been testing some of the butterflies. One had some light OE. The problem is in the fall OE becomes heavier due to butterflies carrying it farther and it multiplying. No cold weather to destroy it outside. It just keeps multiplying.

The problem also is that some of these issues could be other diseases or genetics. If you don't tests then, you have to assume what might be happening. If you think OE, then make sure you sterilize thoroughly containers that had sick butterflies and wipe down surfaces inside. The spores can survive for a long time on surfaces or in containers not sterilized.

I've had people tell me that they had similiar problems. That they tested and the butterfly was clean.

[skates4marty]

Just had another one. I'm getting used to it now.

[Mona Miller]

One year I had such problems with flies. It was awful. The caterpillars would take forever to finish their cycle and would still be very small. They'd go up to pupate and then that awful fly larva would come out of the caterpillar or the pupa.

[skates4marty]

Sigh. Like you said, cycles, cycles. My year for this problem. What makes it worse is that I gave a cat to a newbie, and the same thing happened to her on Sunday, then I gave her a very ready chrysalis to make up for it, and today, that one did not eclose properly either. But at least she knows now that it wasn't her fault.

On the bright side, 2 people I recruited into the cult a couple of years ago posted great numbers for this weekend, releasing 10 to 20 a day.

[skates4marty]

If you think OE, then make sure you sterilize thoroughly containers that had sick butterflies and wipe down surfaces inside.

Good reminder. I will wash, bleach, and set out in the sun as usual. I will also add a freeze cycle this year by leaving them on the porch during a cold snap.

[Mona Miller]

At the beginning of this website, there is some good advise.

http://www.evansonart.com/monarchdisease.html
"Having problems raising healthy butterflies? You are not alone! This page was born out of our frustration! Been there, done that . . . It drove me to the internet to find the answers and I found them in the webpage links at the bottom of the page. It is estimated that only 10% of monarch eggs in the wild make it to butterflies. However, as Voltaire pointed out in Candide, this is not the best of all posssible worlds. Sometimes there are no answers other than this monarch was not meant to be. Keep in mind that these creatures cannot tolerate temperature extremes and they require some humidity. They can also be poisoned -- so only use non-toxic, mild soap solutions instead of insecticides on the milkweed in your garden (I remove aphids by hand or with a stream of water). Also, if you carefully bleach your milkweed and keep the containers clean, it will definitely help you avoid some of the issues below. If you have a sick larva, remove it immediately. It should be isolated or destroyed. Then bleach the infected container and give any remaining monarchs a clean container and new food and a fresh paper towel. Also wash your hands or change your rubber gloves between handling different containers."

[applestar]

No, I'm not set up for testing

Maybe you could at least tape-lift the scales from them so you'll have samples to see when opportunity presents. You could perhaps take photos of the problems and keep the scale samples with them.

I'm sorry you're having this problem with so many. That's so disheartening.

[skates4marty]

I had more of the same problems today (I won't bore you with the details).

I have gone through two stages: Depression and Denial ("I'll euthanize and throw them away and not think about it anymore") and have now entered Determined. I remembered that we gave our son a microscope a few years ago. I have offered to pay him for each butterfly he tests.

[Mona Miller]

Sounds like a plan. I hope you find out what is going on.

[skates4marty]

With the microscope, I see... stuff. Concave center but round, like red blood cells, not lemon or football shaped as described and pictured on the various Web sites. Will study more today.

Last year should have been the year I saw a lot of Oe: I found an egg at the end of April, and we ended up with two waves, in May and August. Big numbers. So there were a lot of adults who chould have been contaminating the MW. This year, I didn't see a cat until August. And this is the year I get Oe?

[skates4marty]

OK, found the spores.

[Mona Miller]

Sorry to hear that.

[applestar]

Not completely unexpected, but discouraging none-the-less.