Mosquito spray - listless caterpillars

[blazing star]

Hi all,

I'm newly registered to this forum. I donated, too!!! Thanks for all the information here.

I am concerned. I live in a suburban area and they routinely spray for mosquitoes. I have been on the "do not spray" list for a few years. I have been raising monarchs since this time and never had a problem. Last night, they sprayed. I went out to gather new leaves and immediately, the caterpillars started writhing and fell off, or crawled off the leaves.

I went outside and rinsed the leaves with water from my rain barrels. This didn't help. I then soaked them and rinsed them with tap water. They are either not on the leaves or on the leaves and not eating.

I called the abatement company and he said that they are using something new but have been using it for a few months, so I don't believe it's a problem with a new chemical. I asked if they were good about turning off the truck near no spray zones and he said yes. I expressed why I'm concerned and he was very understanding and said he will call the manufacturer to see what they say (I'm very aware the manufacturer will espouse how safe their chemicals are).

I know I'm not supposed to do this but I'm going to public land today to pick leaves to see if I can revive them.

I am concerned and believe with little doubt that mosquito spraying is contributing to declining populations. I left my front and back porch lights on to see if the moths survived the spraying and found them dead on the ground along with a bunch of flies.

What can be done about this?

[blazing star]

I should add that the chemicals they are spraying are zenivex and anvil (sumithrin).

[Mona Miller]

You have to do some research on those chemicals and see what shelf life (how long they last in the environment) and how long they kill. What is your recourse about being sprayed when you asked them not to? I think you have proof now that the spray truck driver wasn't paying attention to what they were doing.

[blazing star]

Sadly, they said the drift can go up to 300 feet. That's probably a means to avoid liability right there.

I tried researching the chemicals today but have more to learn. I will continue my quest to become informed and then try to educate. I have to be careful to consider the source when researching. I restore land to native plantings and have to handle herbicide for some invasives and if you read up on the herbicide they say there is no risk of cancer. It doesn't state who funded this "study". I'll remain concerned even if the info I find tells me it's safe for the caterpillars. I think I am going to devise a strategy to cover the plants the next time they come around. This still doesn't bode well for the rest of the monarch population having to deal with the toxins.

I did pick leaves from the water retention area by my house and replaced the tainted leaves with these. There is still a chance they were sprayed but it's much less likely as they were much further from the road. One of the ones I thought was dead went through a molt. The other large ones don't look so good. It seems the small ones may get through this.

Thank you for replying.

[Mona Miller]

They might get through the poison. I had that happen last year. A local nursery that usually has safe plants purchased ones that had been sprayed. The perennial manager got in new plants after my experience so that saved many teachers from having to deal with dead caterpillars. Not all my caterpillars died.

[blazing star]

This is incentive for me to raise many more next year, just in case. Thanks for your optimism. This kept me up all night last night. I was very distraught as I felt helpless for the little critters.

I appreciate how well you man this site. Are you a moderator, a regular participant or a volunteer?

Besides supporting this site and raising the butterflies, are there any other groups of which I should be made aware? I saw that organization that is trying to support conservation of the wintering grounds. Is that a good organization to which I should contribute?

Sorry, so many questions. I just want to be doing all I can.

[Mona Miller]

I'm a participant. Just sharing and learning.

It depends on where you are located. To get an idea of list serves try:

www.butterflydigest.com
Butterfly Digest.

Dplex
http://www.monarchwatch.org/dplex/index.htm
This get a lot of mail. Another Monarch Watch list serve.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/butterfly/
I like the Garden Forum, the section on Butterflies.

I'm in VA so I'm on several Virginia Yahoo list serves.

What exactly are you looking for? I've been doing this for 18 years.

[blazing star]

I'm in Illinois but my goal is to support any entity that effective in preserving monarchs. I'm just sort of new to this wondering where to direct my efforts and money. I'm on my phone so ill check the links tomorrow.

[Mona Miller]

Monarch Watch is a great organization. Main website is:
http://www.monarchwatch.org

Did you see the post I recently made on Journey North? They follow the Monarch Migration and it starts August 26?

[blazing star]

Yes, I donated to Monarch Watch already!!!!

That's how I found you, Mona.

Today, the caterpillars that were laying on their sides on the bottom of the container are now on the new leaves and have eaten. Development has definitely slowed as for their size, they should have eaten at least have a leaf and they are just nibbling.

I have more adult monarchs nectaring outside so the butterflies don't seemed to be harmed by the toxin.

I don't have time to check out your links yet but will be back to do so.

You're awesome. Thanks for your help. It's good not to feel alone during this as the general public don't seem to get it and think it's kinda weird.

[Mona Miller]

I have to say that most of the people here will tell you that pesticides/herbicides should not be used in areas where butterflies are breeding because they will surely die. It affects people, too. But, it usually takes longer to see what's happening.

I'm glad your caterpillars are doing better. Some of mine didn't make it last year. They were the first of the season, too.

Don't worry, you are in good company and can ask any question that you want. There's a lot of good experts on this list.

[blazing star]

Hi Mona,

I am lucky. I left a message for the mosquito abatement director today to provide him with an update and to let him know that surely the leaves seemed tainted and I gave him info on how it's affected the caterpillars. He actually called me back and spent around 25 minutes on the phone with me gathering info. He is concerned. I commended him and told him how nice it is to know someone actually cares enough to look into this. He said he looks for feedback like mine to determine future protocol. Unbeknownst to me, there are a couple people with honey bee colonies in my area and he gets data on residual affects from them. I'm really comforted that the agency is open for discussion and will tweak protocol and chemical use based on feedback. It's not perfect as I'd like no toxins to be sprayed but at least they're considerate and open. This will be a work in progress as this will, of course, be my last brood I raise for the year. He wants to continue discussions next year if I see irregularities with the rearing.

[Mona Miller]

Action speaks louder that words. People are usually more willingly to work with those that are informative instead of defensive. But, we want our caterpillars healthy and ourselves, too.

[blazing star]

One died. I was concerned about this one as it was acting the strangest on the contaminated leaves and it's frass became very dry and lightly colored. It's hind end shrunk up more so than the rest of the body and the body turned a dark shade near the middle/upper part of the body. It was a trooper, eating until the end.

Does this sound like anything occurred that you're familiar with? I'm still thinking it was tainted leaves.

[Mona Miller]

It probably was the tainted leaves. Some of them are able to pull through and others not. The poison shuts down the caterpillar's systems.

[blazing star]

[blazing star]

Mona, Now one of the smaller cats is hanging in a j but from an irregular part of the leaf so I know this isn't good. I'm not sure if the others will make it. This seems bad. I am going to talk to my neighbor to make sure they aren't spraying anything so I least know that it's a matter solely with the mosquito abatement chemical.

[Mona Miller]

I just have to deal with spraying Bt for Gypsy moths. The county that I am in uses Bt for mosquitoes--they throw disc into the ponds, but doesn't spray. I keep crossing my fingers every time I go out to get host plants for the Mourning Cloaks.

Many, many eggs being laid today. I don't have enough milkweed for them. I'm enclosing some of the milkweed in butterfly sleeves and put the caterpillars in the sleeves so the Monarchs don't lay more on the milkweed and so the caterpillars inside are protected and will have enough to eat.

[blazing star]

What kind of sleeve? You mean on the outside plants you put something around the leaves? Explain, please (if you have time).