Black Spot on Chrysalis

[NickiM]

Hi everyone,

I found 22 cats over the last week--so far! Much better than last year.

One formed a chrysalis this morning with a large black spot on the side. I had 3 that had brown spots last year--assumed it was OE and euthanized. I haven't been able to find any photos that look like this black spot, so I don't know whether to euthanize it or not. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

P.S. I very gently touched the black spot and some of it came off. Is that a bad or a good sign? I really hate to euthanize, but I don't want to release unhealthy butterflies, assuming that this guy--and it is male--can emerge.

[Mona Miller]

Could it be part of the shed skin? Some times that gets snagged into the pupa. Best way to remove that is spray with water and let it soften. It may come off, but don't pull too hard. If you want to take a "wait and see" method. Just isolate it into a small container--one longer enough so that it can expland its wings.

[chanceychelsey]

I had one guy going into a chrysalis shortly after one of my butterflies emerged. The butterfly must have contacted the chrysalis before it had hardened and the chrysalis dripped a few drops of green liquid. Once it hardened, the drip dried to a black spot. It is not due to emerge for approximately 3-5 days. I will post again when it is out, and let you know if it was fine or not. The shape of the chrysalis looks good and the spot is not raised at all. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be okay.

Waystation 927
Tottenham, Ontario

[Mona Miller]

Me, too. I've had them leak a bit and still be okay.

[NickiM]

Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately, the chrysalis is small and a bit mishapen, plus it's got some new tiny spots now. I haven't totally given up hope for it, but it's not looking good.

[Mona Miller]

I always isolate those that have problems and then take a "wait and see" attitude. Good luck!

[chanceychelsey]

Update:

My chrysalis which had been stepped on by a butterfly while going into a chrysalis (black spot) appears to have emerged fine. I have not let it, or it's 3 siblings go today as the weather here today is wet. If tomorrow is better, I am hoping that everyone can get away ok.

Waystation 927
Tottenham, Ontario

P.S. I have two chrysalis which are not looking right and one butterfly was unable to emerge a couple of days ago. These are the first problems I have encountered this year aside from a couple of cats that died.

[Mona Miller]

Glad to here the other chrysalis emerged okay. Sorry to hear that two others are having problems. Again, good luck!

[Summerinx]

One of my chrysalises have this black line along the original pattern of the casing.
It's my first time raising caterpillars and I don't know what it is, it doesn't seem like OE from the pictures I've seen.

Looks like this: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/L ... 1282678617

[Mona Miller]

It didn't harden all the way and that left a gap in the seam where it should have closed. Just keep an eye on it. Wait a day or so and then take it down and relocate it, just in case. This can be done by spraying it with water (the silk part), and waiting about 10 seconds. The silk will loosen and you can pull the pupa/chrysalis down and then take glue or a stick pin (I use the ones with plastic heads so the butterflies don't tear their wings on the metal), and pin/glue them in a new container. Always put the sharp part of the stick pin on the outside of containers. I weave it through netting.

[Summerinx]

THanks for the info. I've got 2 of them with the lines now. How would this affect the chrysalis? When they're emerging?

[Mona Miller]

I think you should probably wait to see. No fluid dropping out. It is mostly closed. Keep your fingers crossed and say a prayer.

[NickiM]

My "problem child" with the black spots and shriveled chrysalis should have eclosed this morning, but she was solid black and I was sure she was dead. I left her hanging and was busy doing other things, and around 10am I looked up and there was a perfect monarch hanging on the remains on that funky chrysalis. I released her this afternoon and she flew up high into a tree. So glad I didn't give up on her.

If all of my kids follow the same pattern--eclosing after 8 days--I'll have 15 arriving in the next 2 days. And, best of all, none have any signs of OE!!

[Mona Miller]

Good news! Another Monarch joins the group.

[applestar]

Can I just tack onto this thread as yet another Chrysalis with a problem?
This one can't be saved, unfortunately, but I was away all day and came home to find a new Chrysalis that looked slightly shriveled. Then I realized it had leaked fluid (not the black messy one like an infected one). When I removed it from the cage, I realized it had a largish round hole on the side. It's not Tachnid because there is no silk rappel line(s).

Could it have been chewed through by a 5th instar? This is the first I've seen like it.

[Mona Miller]

Yes, unfortunately, sometimes other caterpillars will eat a chrysalis. Some times it is because of lack of food and I think other times from lack of good vision; after all, they are all eating milkweed and must taste like milkweed.

[applestar]

[Summerinx]

I have another problem. One of my chrysalises is developing brown patches. I tried looking it up, but all the parasites/illnesses seem to involve black spots or something else. Can someone tell me what this is?

Photo: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/Linlianise/Pic.jpg

Hopefully it's nothing.

[Mona Miller]

I'd take it down and isolate it, but it could be bacteria or OE. Sometimes they just turn brownish and don't come out. Easiest way to get it down is to spray with water, wait at least 10 seconds and then the silk will loosen and the pupa will come off easily. Sorry.

[applestar]

If this change occurred within a day or so of pupating, I believe the typical cause is NVP (nuclear polyhedrosis virus). The chrysalis will leak black fluid all over on it's own or when you try to take it down. it's always a messy process. This happens usually with cats that have black blotches. I isolate them as soon as I spot them. Most of the time they don't survive and turn brown and die before pupating, but some do, and when they do, the chrysalis soon end up looking like the one in your photo.

Last year we had a 3rd instar cat with light brown patch on one "shoulder". The brown patch turned into black as it matured, but it pupated and a butterfly eclosed that was perfect in every way except that one of his forewings was malformed. I may be wrong, but I suspect an injury -- it developed the brown patch after it had somehow lost an antenna and I always thought a larger cat had nibbled on it. Incidentally, he had two perfect antennae when he eclosed....

If the cat was apparently unmarked, sometimes the brown internal fluid signals tachnid maggot emergence in the near future. I had ones like those on the hammock frame outside...

[Mona Miller]

If you loosen the silk, and use precautions, you won't have a mess. Put a small cup under it. Put some patting in the cup so it doesn't have a hard landing. You don't have to pull it, use a stick pin to loosen the silk. I've raised hundreds of monarchs, there's always a way things can be done if you just think about it.

[applestar]

I'm sure you're right Mona... And your experience shows because you always come up with a good idea/an appropriate procedure for any given situation. I think I just need more practice with handling, and, moreover, remembering suitable tools/paraphenaria to use....

What's in your Monarch Rearing toolkit and how do you keep them organized?

[Mona Miller]

It's all on my dinning room table. I use one of my 13 cup glad containers for pins, tape, spray bottle, paint brushes, cups, cotton beauty pads, etc... There was a thread on this on the Monarch Teacher Network list serve. Bob S. had a great tool kit, I'll see if I can find that email and post it:

BTW, I've been raising Monarchs, plus many other moth and butterfly species for 17 years. I've also helped start a butterfly association and been a member of one. I learn from many list serves and many people. I don't know it all, still learning, but I'll share what I know and I also do loads of research in books and on the internet.

[Summerinx]

Well, the brown chrysalis I posted seemed quite wrecked, it started to leak and there was definitely a hole on it, so it's gone now.

Although I've two brand new butterflies. I think the male has oe from the state of his chrysalis(there were small inky patched, and a tiny black circle), he looks perfect, but I think I'll just keep him for a while and euthanize and mount him.
One more chrysalis to go.