Chrysalis problems

[beachbutterfly]

We are having a problem here with our hatching chrysalii. Their bodies are getting stuck inside and they stay that way. We have lost 4 in the last few days which is a very high percentage. I feel it might have something to do with the passing of tropical storm ernesto. The air was extremely damp and full of salt spray from the ocean. Has anyone else had a problem with this?
We have had a banner year with over 400 releases so far, but recently we have had a flurry of deformed butterflies.

[MILW]

It sounds like it could be O. e. infection, take a look at this page. If you have a microscope available, you can do a quick test to see if spores are present.
-Scott

[mommalepapillon]

Good link thanks

sorry about your chrysalis... maybe you could help them?
Pull the chrysalis off with tweezers?

I know Gwynne has helped them come out of their "shell"

good luck!

[Gwynne]

Good link thanks

sorry about your chrysalis... maybe you could help them?
Pull the chrysalis off with tweezers?

I know Gwynne has helped them come out of their "shell"

good luck!

Yes, I have and I have never had a succesful story. I have had four stuck in their chrysalises. I wasnt there when the first two eclosed. One I tried my best to help but one wing was still deformed. Then I had the dwarf that I wrote about. I literally peeled the entire shell off him. His wings were 1/4 of an inch long. His thorax was swollen. It was a pitiful sight. Some things in nature you cant change. Sigh.

[mommalepapillon]

It was a pitiful sight. Some things in nature you cant change. Sigh.

SOOOO TRUE!

[applestar]

I've tried searching here as well as on Google and this thread seems to be the nearest one to my problem. We were away all day in Cape May trying to see Monarchs in migration. One of the chrysalises that eclosed today while we were gone, s/he (I didn't even look closely) looks perfect except that the end of her tush is stuck -- perhaps to the cremaster. S/he's trying to pull away, the dried up shell is at an angle, and I see some orange stain on one dried up shell "petal" so s/he's done pumping and excreted -- possibly dried up stuff adding to the already "sticky" situation.

I was doing my last check before going to bed (1AM here). There are 5 others sleeping in the enclosure, but this one's still struggling to pull away. Should I spray the silk with water to loosen it, pull the shell off by the cremaster? (but s/he might still be stuck to the whole shell -- not knowing WHEN s/he eclosed, I'm concerned about handling her/him -- I usually wait until the day after eclosing to be sure their wings are completely dry) I know once I get her/him down, I might be able to cut away most of what's stuck on....

[applestar]

OK, nevermind. Typing the situation here, helped me to calm down and think a bit. I decided that the risk of whatever is getting her stuck hardening overnight was greater than my concern over handling her, and that if spraying the cremaster so effectively loosens the silk, spraying with water should help soften what's holding her.

I went ahead and thoroughly sprayed her chrysalis shell and all around the cremaster (it was a "damsel in distress" ). At first, I was sure I'd made a TERRIBLE mistake because she went into a panic and fluttered all over (well what would YOU do if someone sprayed your tush with cold water when you were exhaused and resting, more than likely, like she was? ) beating herself up all over the ceiling and other dried up chrysalises around hers. But reaching in the enclosure and cupping her in my hand immediately settled her down. She hung on to my fingers and tried to pull herself off. Her efforts showed me the critical view of the situation -- that her tail-tip was completely free of the cremaster and she was only stuck to one soiled and dried up piece of the chrysalis. After a couple of tries, I was able to get my fingers between her abdomen and the cremaster and pinch with my fingertips at the offending piece of chrysalis.

She came off all of a sudden, and fluttered to the floor, but she was FREE and unhurt. I let her climb on my fingers, and offered to set her down on the Gatorade-soaked cottonball. She was not interested in feeding, but, when coaxed, willingly climbed up the netting of the enclosure. Once she was at the top/ceiling, she constantly opened/closed her wings. At first, it seemed like the bottom inside edges of the hindwings were stuck alongside her abdomen, but after about the 7th or 8th open close exercise, I finally saw the gaps between the abdomen and the hindwings on both sides, and on the 9th beat, she lifted her tail up completely away from her abdomen. (Possibly the waterspray DID help.)

WE'RE GOOD! I see no obvious signs of problems and I can finally go to bed.

[Mona Miller]

I guest at 12 PM most of us have shut off our computers and gone to bed at least on the east coast.

Whenever I have any chrysalis attached to an adult, I always soften with water before trying to pull away. I've had painted ladies get their tails caught or part of the chrysalis is a band around the abdomen. The water really does help soften those pieces.

Glad that you were successful.

I had just posted some info for the person who's butterfly still had part of the caterpillar's head attached. I suggested trying to soften with water and remove. I try to remove if possible skin at the top of the cremaster if they don't get rid of that. It can dry into the chrysalis and cause problems. But, do this carefully.

[applestar]

Thanks Mona. As of this morning, she is indistinguishable from the others. So I guess she's OK.

[sbannister]

I am so glad I read these posts because I have had this happen and did not think I would be able to help them. I will never give up that easily again. Good job, Ladies!!!

[Gwynne]

Applestar, I am wondering how the Cape May migration is going? Did you see a lot of monarchs? One year I didnt but the next I did. I always like the tagging demonstrations.

[Mona Miller]

http://rkwalton.com/mmp02.html
This is the road census for the Monarch Monitoring in Cape May. Looks like they are seeing a few more than last year at this time.

[summerluver]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that panics when one of our babies is having trouble and gets out the surgical mask. Last year I had a couple of butterflies damage their wings and found out how to repair them with splints on YouTube! I was at Cape May this past weekend and was very disappointed. It was cool and windy, so there wasn't much flying around. I saw a total of 5 butterflies, most of which were nectaring on the flowers in the planters in the shopping district. Went to a demonstration and talk on tagging by members of the Cape May Monarch Monitoring Project, and they tagged and let 3 butterflies go. It was so cold, that one landed on the grass but eventually made it to a pine tree to bask when it was warmed up in the demonstrators hands, and another just basked on a limb near the first one trying to warm up too. The 3rd actually flew off successfully. It's been cool up here in general all week.

[applestar]

We didn't see a "mass" migration either. We went to the MTN Fall Gathering on Saturday. We met up with, and had lunch at the Cape May lighthouse. Some folks brought their butterflies and Bruce did tagging demos and instructions, then we walked over to the nature trails to release them. We saw 4~5 Monarchs in the garden by the lighthouse gift shop, maybe 7~8 while walking the trails, including a mating pair (I was very surprised by this, I thought they would be abstaining by this time to conserve energy ). Afterwards, my family went on a bike ride around the Cape May Point. VERY DISAPPOINTED until the very end, when we came across a garden with about 8 nectaring Monarchs and Skippers, where I saw Skippers attacking and chasing away Monarchs for the first time.

We had early dinner at the Lobster House and was hoping to get back to the Point in time to look for roosting sites, but the storm swept in and we lost daylight earlier + it started to rain. So I had to give up on that plan.

[summerluver]

I'm suprised they were mating too. It was my understanding that our brood doesn't reach sexual maturity until the winter, so that a female doesn't lay eggs when the season turns too cold for them to become adults. Don't you love the Lobster House...their Key LIme pie is to die for.

[Mona Miller]

The Monarchs in diapause still mate. They mate along the way, they mate in Mexico, too. The thing is they don't lay eggs. The female's reproduce organs are not mature. Those mature during the spring. There are some reproduce Monarchs still laying eggs in October. They seem to keep traveling South. I get some in my yard pretty late. I still have 3rd instar caterpillars.