RE: Need advice before I go on vacation

[Lindabird]

O.K. I'm going to Las Vegas on Saturday morning and will be gone for a week. My sister is babysitting my cats for me. She told me to type something up to tell her what to do. The only problem is.....this is my first time for a large quantity like this. I've done one or two Monarchs at a time, but not 30+. Actually, up to this point I've only raised 3, and they were probably 4th or 5th instar when I found them. However, I have raised several black swallowtails the last 3 years.

Here are my questions...

1. I have kept my baby cats in baby food containers. Not the jars, but the clear rectangle plastic ones with a lid. I've got one in each now. They are about an inch long now....don't really understand instar stages yet, but I'm guessing most are 2 now. I know several of them have shed their skin twice now. I think it's time to put them into something else now, but not sure what. I do have 3 new butterfly pavilions I can use....but would like to hear what works best for you all.

2. How much air do they need? They are in these containers with no holes. The lid isn't really that tight though. I also open it in the morning and the evening to clean out poop and replace the milkweed. They seem to be fine though. It's kind of cool to see their underside. When they aren't eating they to go the top of the lid. I've noticed some have a little webbing on the lid...are they trying to tell me something? Is this premature? I know they do this when they pupate, but they aren't anywhere close to doing that.

3. I switched their food today. My milkweed is still fairly small because I planted it late and it's been dry and hot. We cut down some common milkweed today. We cut the whole plant and brought them home and put the stalks in a big bucket of water. I have gone through them and pulled the leaves with eggs, and put them in baggies with a damp paper towel. Do I need a bag for each one? I have like 11 leaves with eggs in a large baggy? Is that too many? How long do I leave them in there? I brought the ones from my garden in when they were about 1/4 inch some smaller. I put them immediately in the baby food containers, and they have done fine. I've got them stacked 3 high. It's working for me....but I'm sure everyone else has something easier.

4. How do I get the milkweed ready for my sister? Should I just give her the big bucket with the milkweed stalks soaking in water? Do I take the leaves off? Should I wash the leaves? Should I cut off a bad part of a leaf? Should I store them in baggies? Should I keep them in the refrigerator? I'm trying to make it so that she won't have to go out and search for milkweed. Will it last for a week this way?

5. The stalks are too big to put them in a cage. How do you keep it fresh in the containers while they are eating it? The common milkweed is just one big stalk....it doesn't have limbs I can cut off and put into water and then put into their cage.

I gave her my name and password so if she gets in a bind she can come to the forum and get help.

I would sure appreciate anyones advice.

[MILW]

Well, I'll take a shot at this! If your stalks in the bucket seem wilted, you'll need to either cut the stem again and rinse off the latex before putting them back in the bucket; or, you can just take the leaves and put them in a ziplock in the refrigerator. I've done the fridge storage before and it works reasonably well.
My favorite method would be to put all but the smallest cats onto stalks standing in water, as long as you're happy that the leaves won't dry out. Inside the pavilion would be best, to contain the poops and in case any get old enough to start wandering.

2. How much air do they need? - They really don't require as much oxygen as most people seem to think. I've raised Manduca larvae (they get to 4" long, as big as your index finger) inside plastic ice cream cups with snap on lids, no holes... (that was a lab colony, major production!). Even if you weren't opening the lids, there is still plenty of air.
I've noticed some have a little webbing on the lid...are they trying to tell me something? Is this premature? - The larvae are always putting down a little trail of silk from their salivary glands. When they want to molt, they make a little patch of silk to hold onto - you can see them moving their head from side to side as they crawl up. And when they want to molt, they often will leave the leaf and crawl onto the side or lid of the container. You needn't worry about this- just don't touch them, since they are somewhat delicate while preparing to molt!

3. Do I need a bag for each one? I have like 11 leaves with eggs in a large baggy? Is that too many? How long do I leave them in there? - For the first week, its OK to keep several together, since each one is only eating a small portion of leaf. How many? I've had up to twenty in plastic tub at once, but I'm more comfortable with 4-5 per container...
I brought the ones from my garden in when they were about 1/4 inch some smaller. I put them immediately in the baby food containers, and they have done fine. I've got them stacked 3 high. It's working for me....but I'm sure everyone else has something easier.- Sounds just like our lab setup!

4. Should I keep them in the refrigerator? I'm trying to make it so that she won't have to go out and search for milkweed. Will it last for a week this way?[/b] - Yes.

5. The stalks are too big to put them in a cage. How do you keep it fresh in the containers while they are eating it? The common milkweed is just one big stalk....it doesn't have limbs I can cut off and put into water and then put into their cage. How about, cut off the top of the stalk to a height that will fit into the pavilion, and take the leaves off the lower part to hold in the fridge? Otherwise, I would put a damp paper towel on a small plate and put one or two leaves on it, and one large caterpillar. Your sister can keep the paper towels damp each day and put new leaves on if needed.

I gave her my name and password so if she gets in a bind she can come to the forum and get help.

I would sure appreciate anyones advice.

cheers! -Scott

[Farfalla]

Wow Scott....you are good! ...Have a great vacation, Linda!

~Hope

[Lindabird]

Scott....Thank you so much for your advice. You've made me more confident in feeling that I half way know what I'm doing. There are just so many little things I'm not sure of....and I've got so many right now, I don't want to mess up and kill them. They all seem happy and healthy right now.

I do like my little baby food containers. It's working for me, and I think it's working for them. BUT, some are probably about ready to outgrow it.

I just wasn't prepared for the onslaught....and to be leaving for a week at the height of all the activity. I wouldn't be so nervous if I wasn't leaving....and I could take it day by day. But to have to throw it all onto someone that has never done any of this before, it's scary for both of us.

I just hope she gets to experience witnessing one going into his chrysalis, and also emerging from the chrysalis. She'll be hooked for sure! I know her. She'll turn her whole yard into a waystation! She doesn't do anything little! Mark my word! (Susan, just in case you read this when I'm gone, you know I'm right!)

Farfalla.....Thanks! I hope it's fun! I've never been to Vegas before.

I'm going to take some of my eggs, baby cats, and larger cats to my sister at her work so she can see what they all look like, so she'll know what she's looking for.

[MILW]

Good luck and have a good vacation! Let us know the news when you get back!
--Scott

[jen]

Hi all,
scott and linda mentioned rearing tiny cats in containers with snap on lids, no airholes. How big are the cats when they leave this container? In what then do You put them in? Can they breathe? I'm asking because right now I have ten tiny hatchlings. % each in two butter tubs, but I have a piece of netting across the top, held on with rubber bands. This seems to work out for the older cats I found, but the tiny guys can get through the netting! I accidentally killed a TINY cat this morning when he got caught in the tulle, as I was taking it off to clean out the container. I was so upset!
Also, the new cats were found on swamp milkweed in my garden ( as eggs) and the swamp milkweed leaves in these containers are drying out much too fast, curling up, I'm having a hard time finding the little guys on all those curles up leaves! Does rearing in a closed up container work well for you? How many cats can you put per container? And again, when do you move them and to what? Could any one please share their rearing methods once the eggs hatch? How many per container? Linda, is putting one cat per container working out o.k? Seems like aLOT of work ( Sorry Linda, forgot you were in vegas) I'd appreciate any input from everyone! Thanks,
Jen

[jen]

In response, Dave, Are the eggs you are all putting together in the tupperware container the same age?? I had two eggs on on leaf in a baggie. When one hatched I moved the leaf with the hatched egg, and the one that was still waiting to hatch into a new container. When I came back an hour or so later, the unhatched egg was gone. Is it possible that the tiny cat ate the other one? I guess what I want to know is, If you put all your eggs together and don't move them until they are bigger, do you lose any? Do expect some tinier cats will be eaten by the slightly older cats, if they are all hatching at different times? I once put a one day old cat in with a 3 day old cat, and the little one disappeared! I keep all of mine separated according to when they hatched, but your method seems to be such a time saver! I find myself constantly checking the baggies for hatchlings! Are we crazy people? For instance, right now I have 6 ziplock bags on a tray in my kitchen. Each bag has 2 leaves in it, with one egg on each leaf. I keep checking to see if they've hatched, and when they do, I'll move them to a new butter tub
( which one now hold 5 day cats) That's a lot of moving! Do you find your method easier? It sure sounds it. How many eggs are you putting in at once? When do you move them to plants in a "cage" I seem to be a bit confused on when to make the move from container to cage, if your cats are all different ages. Any advice would be appreciated.
Jen