Deformed Chrysalis At Least One Maybe More

[Gwynne]

I had nine guys together in an aquarium, all the same size so I was hoping they would pupate at the same time. One formed his chrysalis during the night and I had eight hanging in J's when I left for work. When I got home, I saw all had pupated but one. One of the ones that tried to pupate something went wrong with. There is a chrysalis, but the caterpillar is all scrunched up outside. I cant tell if it is the whole caterpillar or just one third outside but it looks bad. Four of them didnt shed their face masks, if that is what you call them. I mentioned in another post that one I had to take one of the aquarium because he started to pupate and someone was chewing on his leaf. He was the first one to not shed his face mask. I gently removed it with tweezers. My first five from several weeks ago all shed their masks. One of the cbrysalis also has a little red line on it. I am hoping it is his antennae, which is possible because he did shed and maybe it hit his chrysalis?

I dont know if this happened because I opened the lid this morning to stick in the one that had formed his chrysalis during the night so that no insects could attact him, because I tripped over the screen the other day when two looked about two pupate, or because I lifted the screen a little this morning to take pictures. I have taken pictures before, with the flash, and no one ever seemed to be hurt. That doesnt mean that it couldnt happen this time. I dont know what went wrong but I guess it was something I did.

Also, I forgot to mention, they had a big screen to pupate on. All but one formed a giant cluster. I dont know why they didnt spread out more. Maybe the way I have been taking care of them in captivity confused them.

[Gwynne]

The last one just formed a chrysalis about 8:00 PM. He, too, didnt shed his face mask. I only have the one severely deformed one. I do see spots on a couple, but that might just be because I am looking for them as they were a topic of conversation today.

I guess it is fine to remove the face masks with tweezers? Is there any benefit to leaving them on? Right now, I cant do anything as I dont want to move anything for 24 hours.

[F3]

One of the ones that tried to pupate something went wrong with. There is a chrysalis, but the caterpillar is all scrunched up outside. I cant tell if it is the whole caterpillar or just one third outside but it looks bad.

Are you sure it wasn't the shed skin? Was the chrysalis fully formed?

[Gwynne]

Yes, the chrysalis was fully formed! I didnt think it was possible to have shed skin on the outside except for the face. I thought maybe it was infected so I decided to remove it and place it by itself. I dropped it right off and green stuff oozed out. I ended up dropping about 6 or 8 times! I feel so bad. When I removed the caterpillar, it did turn out to be shed skin, but my handling it killed it! I didnt mean to and feel lousy. Even though I know it couldnt have survived being dropped that many time and had green stuff coming out, I put it on a little paper towel and put it in a glass by itself. Can you say feeling like a jerk?

[Gwynne]

I guess some of you may be wondering how I managed to drop the same chrysalis eight times. It never occured to me he didnt shed his skin all the way even though the chrysalis was fully formed. I thought he had died while forming the chrysalis. I couldnt bear to dispose of him and I didnt want to leave him with the others in case he had parasites. So I got some tweezers and tried to remove the black stem. There was so much silk around it I didnt think it would be a problem. That was when I first dropped him and he fell to the bottom of the aquarium. I believe I picked him up with my hands, never for a moment guessing he probably just didnt shed fully. It really looked like at least a third of the caterpillar had gotten stuck outside the chrysalis. I tried to hang him up and kept dropping him. Some green liquid came out several times. I finally went into the bathroom with him where I could see better. Even though I knew it was hopeless, I decided to at least remove the caterpillar part and make sure he didnt have bugs coming out. And I kept dropping the poor thing, he was so slippery. It wasnt until I removed the caterpillar part that I thought it looked like skin. I put him in a glass with a paper towel even though nothing could have survived what I did. When I got back to the forum, I saw the post asking if I was sure it wasnt access skin and that is when I realized what I had done. I didnt realize I had been handling a live chrysalis, well, it probably was until I dropped it the first time! I feel so low. Maybe I should just leave this to the experts.

[monarchmama]

Gwynne -
Your story reminds me of a nervous first time mother!

We all probibly have fatality stories from when we first started raising monarchs. Even now after years of raising them I still feel bad when I lose one, but that is how we live and learn. Newly formed crysalis look a bit deformed and lumpy for several hours, and quite often some of the skin hangs onto the top. It will not hurt anything and eventually will fall off once it dries out. Your best bet is to leave nature take its course and handle them as little as possible especially at first.
As a general rule, if the crysalis looks normal but has crumpled black skin hanging from it just let it be. Only be concerned if it turns black or runny, and in that case remove it and any liquid droppings or debrie and wipe down area with an antibiotic wipe or paper towel with diluted mouthwash on it. Just be careful around other the cats and crysalis.

Take time to look at the photo albums that are posted here as it will give you a better idea of what is normal and abnormal with these little guys.

Hang in there!

[Gwynne]

Thanks for understanding. I feel like a murderer. When I looked in on it, it was cracked and I had obvious killed it. I got rid of as it was definately dead. But thank you for letting me know others have done dumb things.

I see eight chrysalises hanging and know there should be nine. I feel so bad about the whole thing.

[F3]

Even though you've lost one, remember the other eight likely wouldn't have survived if you hadn't taken them in. You're still doing a great service.

[Gwynne]

Thank you. I still feel horrible, but it is nice to have understanding friends. I was afraid everyone would judge me but still felt like I had to share what had happened. This is what happens when you stay up late at night reading about all the different diseases and predators! It never occured to me this guy was normal. But thanks for being understanding.

[Lindabird]

Last year I was watching a different variety of caterpillar pupate and I had to leave for a few minutes. When I came back, I was surprised that only half was in the chrysalis. The part hanging out turned black. I gave it up for dead, but I left it in the butterfly pavillion because the kids in my class would have noticed that I got rid of him. Anyway, about a month later we had a butterfly in our pavillion and we thought they were all done. It was a big mystery. We could not figure out where that butterfly came from. When we really, really looked, we noticed the "dead" chrysalis had a slit in it and it was empty! We couldn't believe it. So, don't give up.

[Gwynne]

Too late. I now think what I saw was excess skin that failed to shed. The chrysalis was complete. I decided he must be diseased and went to isolate him so no one else got infected. I used tweezers to grab the black stem but couldnt do it. He fell. I tried several times to attach him to a lid and he kept falling. It was pretty obvious he was dead after I dropped him so many times. In removing the excess skin, which I thought was at least a third of the caterpillar, it became obvious it was only some excess skin. By this point it was too late, I had killed him by handling him incorrectly. When I noticed a large crack and liquid coming out, I had to give him up for dead and dispose of him.