eggs! eggs! eggs!

[jen]

Hi All!
I am brand new to this forum, and I am very excited. For the past four years I have been collecting cats, showing my students and children the marvelous process from cat to chrysalis to beautiful flutterbyes ( as my six year old used to say). My milkweed patch this year has been visited many times, but every time I checked for cats, nothing.
I since then learned that because some of the plants were covered with ants, that the little guys were never making it out of the egg stage! I then waitied again, just two days ago, until a few sailed into my yard again. This time, I took the leaves with egg or two on it ( 3 leaves total), did the wet paper towell in the ziplock bag thing, and now I wait again....
My question is this-
How do I know the eggs are viable? Do the ants devour the entire egg, or suck out the contents, leaving the shell of the egg? I found one leaf that had two clear eggs that looked as though a hole was made in the top. I read that the tiny cat will eat the egg shell after emerging, but couldn't find any little guys. Did something eat the cat out of the shell, leaving the shell behind? Did the eggs I find escape being lunch for those hungry ants? I guess only time will tell, if these eggs hatch soon.( today is the third day they've been in a bag) How long does it take for the eggs to hatch?
I guess my real question is- IF I find eggs on a leaf, does that mean they haven't been eaten by the ants yet??? I find less cats these days, last august I visited 4 or 5 huge patches, and only found 3 adult cats, maybe I should have went sooner in the beginning of August. Oh well, if this egg thing works out, I will continue harvesting eggs from my garden. Seems easier to find eggs in a controlled environment than cats in an uncontrolles environment. Any egg advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Jen

[my monarchs]

Hi Jen.
I'm brand new to this forum too. Just joined today.
I've been raising monarchs for the past three years, although last year I had very little success.
But this year I have about 10 eggs on the go (cats, as you call them)
You can tell when they are about to hatch, by looking at it closely with a magnifying glass. You should see a little black bit (that will become the larva). A good egg stays nice and white.
An ant will eat the whole egg. I had a terrible experience with ants just a few weeks ago. I was standing by the side of the road, cutting a leaf with an egg from a milkweed. I had just spotted a monarch butterfly laying eggs (at least it looked like that what she was doing) an hour earlier and made a mental note to stop on my way back. Sure enough I harvested a beautiful, big egg. I felt a pinch on my foot, looked down, and my whole right foot was entirely covered with ants (I'm not exaggerating if I say there were a hundred ants). They were biting something fierce, and it was absolutely awful, trying to brush them off. When I finally had succeeded in freeing myself of these horrible ants, the egg was entirely gone, completely eaten by the ants.
Now it may be possible that an egg can be sucked clean by an ant, but my experience (and in previous experiences) the ant eats the egg completely.

So far two little eggs have hatched!!! I'm a proud monarch mama now as I care for my two little larvae.

Karen in Barrie, Ontario

[Farfalla]

Hi and welcome!
If you read some of the threads here you will find there are some great photos that have been posted of eggs and caterpillars just after hatching. "my monarchs" is right.. your eggs will turn black prior to hatching. I have had some hatch after 3 days and some took as long as 8 days.The little cats are so teeny weeny they will be very difficult to see. I never thought it would be possible to raise Monarchs from eggs untill I tried it this year.
We raised dozens at the school where I work and now that I am home for the summer I am raising them here as well.
It's very rewarding and lots of fun!
Good Luck and welcome.

[jen]

Sooo, The eggs I've collected should hatch? Do you both use the wet paper towell method, or is there a better way? What kind of container do you keep the adult cats in? How many can fit at one time? If this goes well (like I said, in the past I was only finding 4-6 cats a season) I am hoping to raise and release quite a few monarchs. How many do you get per summer? I appreciate all of your great advice...
Jen

[Farfalla]

The eggs will go from a whitish/ creamy yellow to black. Then yup.. they should hatch.
We have all been debating and discussing the perfect containment system...
There is no one right way. ( and no perfect way). You'll find what works for you!
Lots of folks here use the plastic bag method for hatchlings. I like chinese food take out conatiners. ( They are round white bowls with clear lids) I wrap the leaf stems in wet paper towels and then wrap the paper towels in saran wrap to keep things dry.( Moisture breeds disease )After hatching I leave the new cats in there for a few days then I move them to hermit crab type plastic tanks. I line the bottom with paper towels that I change a few times a day.(They eat and poop TONS!)
It gets tricky after that. If the tank is large enough they can emerge in there. (I release mine 6 hours after emerging.) If it is inclement weather you'll need an enclosure for them to move around in.I have a screen chameleon cage. But they sell pop up type tents....someone here made a clever one with embroidery hoops and bridal netting! I also saw a net laundry pop up at the dollar store that looks like it would work.

[jen]

Thanks so much, all of your info was really helpful, I'll keep you posted( bad pun)

[monarchmama]

Hello! I am new here but have been raising monarchs since I was a young teenager - so in thirty five years I have tried many methods, and a lot depends on how many you are trying to raise at once.
Last summer I read about the "baggie method" and tried it for hatching eggs and raising them to 2nd or third instar and it worked well for me. I hung them on a clothesline in the partial shade at edge of yard with clothespins to hold the bags to line. It made a great nursery and this way I had no problems with the larger cats eating the smaller ones. I also was able to date the bags with date egg found and date it hatched which was rather interesting to observe.
For the larger cats I built a freestanding pvc pipe frame (approx. 18"w x 24" d and 36" h" and covered the sides and top with bridal netting and placed it over a stand of milkweed in my garden and placed the larger cats there once they were easy to handle and let them finish the cycle in the outdoor cage. I also supplemented with a coffee can of fresh leaves and stems so that the stand of milkweed didnt get totally stripped.
Whatever method you use it is important to remember that if you plan on tagging your monarchs for migration studies, they should be raised outdoors or in a room that only recieves natural sunlight and is not lit after dark, or they will not migrate when the time comes.

Good luck!

[jen]

Thanks monarch mama,
Lots of great info. I was wondering about your clothesline "nursery", after an egg hatches, how long before you take it out of the baggie? Do you leave it in there to all others in the same bag hatch? I put three leaves into 3 separate baggies. Two leaves had two eggs each, the third only had one. Will they all hatch at the same time? If not, do I leave the little tiny guys closed up in the bag till the other egg hatches? Should I transfer him right away to my butter tubs and leave the other egg to hatch? I really appreciate the step by step details! Thanks again,
Jen

[Farfalla]

Monarch Mama wrote:

"Whatever method you use it is important to remember that if you plan on tagging your monarchs for migration studies, they should be raised outdoors or in a room that only recieves natural sunlight and is not lit after dark, or they will not migrate when the time comes. "

Monarch mama, I have never tagged Monarchs before but I wanted to try this year..I would love to know more about this.. Thank you for sharing this information.. I would never have known! Is all the info for raising Monarchs for tag/release here on this website? Do you have other links you could share as well?

[carolv90]

Hi
I've had common milkweed established in my yard for at least 10years. this year there are many monarchs laying eggs. Maybe they have always been there but I'm able to observe them this year. Problem is the eggs seem to be eaten right away. I don't use any chemicals and there are so many predators. I picked the plants that would have been mown and put them in a vase. They wilted. Last summer I found late instars in mid Sept. Maybe I should let nature be? I'd like to help the monarchs in this area (so NH) but it's not looking very good for the eggs I've "saved" What do you think? I wil try the baggie and paper towel method next.

[Farfalla]

Hi Carol!
The same thing happened here. I don't know if this year is just exceptional.. or if I never noticed the eggs before.
The eggs I have taken inside to rear have grown up to be beautiful butterflies which I released. The ones left outside on the plant never seem to make it.
But I think I read that in nature only 10 percent ever do!
There is also a rearing sleeve which they sell here..you can cover your plant in the garden to protect the life cycle. I have never tried it..But I am going to buy a few because I can no longer take in every egg I find.

[Gwynne]

This is the first year I have ever found eggs, but I never knew what to look for before. They are everywhere. When I bring home leaves to feed the crew, I accidentally end up with a couple more eggs that I have to try to raise, even though I have so many little ones, I am no longer deliberately bringing the eggs inside.

I tried the plastic bag method with a damp paper towel. I hear a lot of people get great results. I collected about 15 eggs and it was a total disaster. Most hatched, but then ended up crawling off the leaf and drowning. This may have been because I was disturbing the little caterpillars, going into the bags too often and they couldnt find their way back to the leaves.

The other day, I came home with 20 eggs. I hadnt meant to, but I was collecting food and there were so many predators in the milkweed patch that I didnt want these guys to become a meal. I cut out the sections of the leaves with the eggs, put them on moist paper towels. This time, however, when they hatched, I put them in a new baggie with a couple of leaves but no paper towel. So far, only one seems to have disappeared. I just moved 10 into two deli style containers last night. I have 10 more in two more deli style containers that are a little bigger. I will have to look at my notes at home. I think I used the same method for everyone and the ones that hatched first I had already moved, but things are so hectic that I am unsure. Or I may have moved then right away to little deli style containers as soon as they hatched. As I said, I do need to check my records. Right now, I have over 20 little guys in all sizes, a pupa, 8 hanging in a 'J' and six that are about 10 days old. I dont know if any of the older ones were raised from eggs. Most were caterpillars that I found in the milkweed already a day or so old, a couple might have been three days.

[monarchmama]

Farfalla - The information about the effect of light on developing cats and crysalis came from "The Monarch Butterfly: International Traveler"
by Fred A. Urquhart , who did an extensive study on monarch migration and discovered the first overwintering grounds in Mexico. The book is now out of publication but can still be found at amazon.com and is filled with information on raising monarchs, migration information, and other monarch facts he learned about monarchs in his many years of dedicated research. It is the definitive textbook on Monarchs, especially if you are interested in the scientific data discovered over the years.
I do not have my copy at hand but when I do I can send you more information about how light affects maturing cats and triggers migration behavior. Tag and release information is here on site and if you have not ordered your tagging kit yet, it would be good to order now so you can have it in time to tag this year.

Jen- I put one egg in each ziplock sandwich bag with a small fresh leaf, inflated baggie before zipping it shut (a plastic drinking straw works great for this) and left them alone until I observed new food was needed and/or frass (droppings) needed cleaned out. I would check the line once a day and do whatever mainenance needed done at the time (reinflate bags, clean out frass, put in new food, or move larger cats to container big enough for metamorphis. I didn't use paper towel when a whole leaf was used, but it is needed if you just have a cutout section of a leaf as leaf fragments dry out much faster than a whole leaf. I would collect enough milkweed for several days, strip each leaf from plant, soak in a bowl of cool water, then drain and store in large baggie in fridge until needed. Leaves will keep for several days like this. I would sort them by size and keep smaller tender leaves for baby cats , and saved the larger leaves for the bigger cats. Soaking or misting the leaves before putting them in baggie seems to provide enough moisture without drowning the tiny critters. If you only have one egg or cat per bag you can leave it in there through several instars, just make sure you move it to a larger container before it is ready to change to crysalis. Hope that helps!