Do Baby Caterpillars Need To Climb To Molt

[Gwynne]

I am wondering if the first and second and third instars need to climb in order to molt? I had eight caterpillars and finally decided to put them in four separate deli containers. I had the biggest one by himself and three in one container and two in the other two. I put lids on them with air holes. I did take some pictures of the largest caterpillar, who was still relatively small, being about six days old. The next day, I found him dying in his container. I dont know if the flash from the camera hurt him. I have photographed older caterpillars. I know if he wanted to molt, he could have climbed to the lid.

Now I have the rest in the aquarium and they would have to climb 10 or 12 inches if they need to find a surface to molt from. I dont know if I should move them back to the deli containers so they dont have to climb far. My last caterpillar had no problem pupating from the lid of the aquarium, but of course, he was fully grown.

This morning, I couldnt find two of the bigger caterpillars. I finally found them under the paper towel that I have lining the bottom of the aquarium. I didnt want to disturb them, so I just tore off the paper they were on and put it upside down on a leaf. Also, when I have removed some of the smaller caterpillars to put them on fresh leaves, about twice I noticed a silk like substance. I wondered if I made a mistake moving them and if they were in the middle of doing something. I have thought about moving everyone back to the smaller containers, but the big caterpillar was doing fine till I put them in there.

For various reasons, this is going to be my last batch, but I am hoping that some of them survive and since I am obviously doing something wrong, wondered if anyone could tell me what from what I have described. Any help is appreciated. And thank you all for answering all the questions I have had in the last month.

[psi_chemie]

Sorry to hear you're having such bad luck.

I really just started raising monarchs last year. I plan to start again in August this year. I don't really know what I am doing, but I had no problems with any of the larvae. I had about a dozen all make it. All I was doing was putting them on milkweed plants that had their stems cut and put in a bottle. At the very beginning, I tried using cut leaves, frozen and fresh, and they didn't seem to like either. Then I tried the whole live plant. Seemed to make a difference. The milkweed was even starting to root in the water before being totally eaten.

[psi_chemie]

Oh yeah, your question.. Anyways, I saw several times my larvae would not move for many hours. Once I pulled them off whatever they were on, and tore loose silk. Yep, they were holding on with silk. I noticed mine would molt at this time. Sometimes you cannot find the shed skin, so it took a while for me to determine this. I noticed too sometimes a larva would leave the milkweed to molt. Sometimes they would leave the milkweed and explore the cage (a 5 gallon tub), then go back to the milkweed. I basically just learned to leave them alone with live cut milkweed, and not worry about the strange things they do. Sometimes they do very strange things. I once had some in a smooth walled plastic box. They spent much time trying to climb the walls, ignoring the milkweed. They learned that they could gain a foothold by putting a few strands of silk on the wall, crawling up an inch, then more silk, then another inch.. until they got out! They can be pretty entertaining to watch.

[Gwynne]

All I was doing was putting them on milkweed plants that had their stems cut and put in a bottle. At the very beginning, I tried using cut leaves, frozen and fresh, and they didn't seem to like either. Then I tried the whole live plant. Seemed to make a difference. The milkweed was even starting to root in the water before being totally eaten.

Did you take the whole milkweed plant out of the ground? Did you keep it inside or outside?

[Farfalla]

It has been my experience that they do go to the sides of the container sometimes to molt. I believe they weave silk as an anchor to facilitate the shedding process. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they should not be removed from that silk. And I have also seen what psi has.. that they weave silk to facilitate movement.

If I need to do any housekeeping in their containers when they are on the sides of it...then I clean around them . If they are motionless on the milkweed itself,....then I just move the leaf. ( but not them) .When I add fresh food I just place it in the tank.When they finally crawl to it and start eating it ,then I remove the old leaf. I never have to touch the cats at all.

Oh and they eat their shed skin. But you can sometimes find their little face masks from each shed. It gets easier with time Gwynne. You just have to trust the natural process.

[Farfalla]

Hi Gwynne,
They do leave the milkweed now and again to shed, rest etc.You don't need to worry about putting them back on a leaf. They will find their way to the milkweed when they are ready.The only thing I worry about is making sure their food is fresh and that the container is dry and clean. The cats do the rest.

[psi_chemie]

I had two types, a common and a vine. The commons I pulled out of the ground and cut the fat white part at the base of the stem where the roots come out. I used a razor blade under warm running water, sliced at an angle, and put it into a bottle of water. I kept it inside in front of an east facing window. The vine I just picked, cut the stem, and put in water. The common milkweed didn't grow much but did start to root. It wasn't getting enough light. But it stayed living and healthy for the whole time until it was eaten away. The vine actually started growing and grew almost as fast as it was being eaten.

[Farfalla]

What does the vine look like, psi? I have never seen vine milkweed...sounds great!
I tried the vase method with common milkweed once. It only worked if I dug up some of the root.Without part of the root attached, the stem just flopped and drooped right over.

How are your cats, Gwynne?
I have two chrsalises that will be butterflies sometime today.

[Gwynne]

How are your cats, Gwynne?
I have two chrsalises that will be butterflies sometime today.

I came home to a bouncing baby boy on Friday and I do mean bouncing! He emerged when I was at work and was still hanging on his chrysalis. I was going to keep him in for the night not knowing when he had emerged. I had to go out for an hour or two and I could tell he wanted to get going when I returned.

No one better think about pupating yet! They arent ready! I do have six caterpillars that seem to be about 5 to 8 days old. Then I went to another patch yesterday and found eight babies. Well, a couple looked several days old. I took a bunch of leaves because my usual patch is really looking picked over with all the predators. This patch looked in good condition, with some predators, but the milkweed wasnt all chewed up.

I did go back to my regular patch last night and ended up with 20 eggs! I didnt want to, but there were so many predators, I didnt see how they would survive. Dont know if they will fare better with me! I only found one caterpillar that looded a day old. After 20 eggs, I had to leave the rest and I dont have the resource to care for them.

For the caterpillars I got yesterday, I am trying the coffee filter method with holes punched in the filters. I will have to let everyone know how it goes.

How are your caterpillars doing?

[Farfalla]

The cats are fat and happy and almost ready to pupate. I love to watch them eat at this stage.
The chysalises are still dark. I hope they hurry so I can let them go today.

[Gwynne]

Mine are eating up a storm. My first four werent big eaters. My fifth ate a lot and was huge. I was reading how people were trying to decide if the bigger caterpillars would be girl or boys. Mine was a boy. In fact, I have had three boys, one girl, and I dont know the sex of the one because I had three flying around in my aquarium at one time and I couldnt get to look at them all at once! I still have only seen one monarch in the wild.

Where in NJ do you live? I once saw a butterfly tree in Cape May full of monarchs. I think it was during migration. My sister says she has a butterfly tree but mostly gets dull colored moths.

[chabeda]

Mine pupated in a salad box, which is only 4 inches tall.

I could use some help from the people posting here.
I fed them yellow squash and 3 other vegetables successfully!
http://www.monarchwatch.org/forums/view ... =2297#2297

[psi_chemie]

Farfalla, I tried to post a couple pictures of my vine. I'm pretty sure this is the same type of vine I found last year with larvae. This vine is almost always completely pest free.

[Farfalla]

psi,
Thank you so much for posting that picture! I am going to have to research that vine!!!!

Chebedi..Wow.vegetables? really? Was that in addition to milkweed? I wonder if the butterflies will be normal and healthy?
Do you have photos? You should send them to Monarch Watch.
I know they were going to do a trial study on this...
I wonder if they ever did?
Your emergence container does not have to be large. Jim posted a pic of a 10 ounce plastic cup with screening on the inside.Just be sure to set the butterflies free after their wings are dry. If there is inclement weather.. you are going to need a larger space.

[Gwynne]

Well this group is really eating a lot! The oldest nine, that is. The next six are getting big so quickly too! I am having trouble finding nice looking milkweed to feed them. The patch I usually go to has really been invaded by predators. I brought in enough food for several days today and am hoping the bigger guys start pupating soon.

[Farfalla]

I am so glad they are all thriving, Gwynne! I was having the same trouble finding "salad bar quality" leaves, too.
I just had to just pick the best looking ones and I washed off all the aphids etc. and trimmed the parts off that looked weird. Then I patted them dry and they were ready to go. I figure it's better than what they would have to choose from if they were developing out there in the patch.

[Gwynne]

Thanks for making me feel better, Farfalla. I didnt even see the patch near work when I drove past, but I may have just been going to fast. I did see another little one that I hadnt looked at yet.

What I am stressing about is having over 20 baby caterpillars and eight eggs and no idea where I am going to put them when they get bigger.

I put three more in the aquarium because they look the same size as the ones already in there. That frees up the hermit crab cage. I am hoping to be able to fit six in there. Well, five. One is smaller than the rest and I dont know if he is younger or sick, so I separated him today. If he thrives, he can go back, I guess.

The rest are babies. I dont know how long it takes to get from hatched egg to pupa, but the hermit crab cage and aquarium will not be free for these babies. I dont know what I am going to do with them. I am hoping of course that they survive, but am stressed out about where to raise them when they get bigger. I guess keep buying containers at the store? They are awfully small though.

[Farfalla]

Any type of container can work for you as long as there is some type of screening or netting rubber banded to the top.Have you checked the dollar store? Insect or fabric screen can be purchased at the hardware store and is pretty cheap. I think Monarch Watch suggests an ice cream container.You can have a an ice cream sundae party and then recycle the tubs. Or maybe even ask at an icecream parlor or deli if they have any tubs that they can donate to the cause.
Let us know what you come up with!

[Gwynne]

I was thinking of trying the Live Monarch Castle. Even that has drawbacks for me as the proper way to use it is with live plants. I can only get leaves. The plants are in such bad condition I have to look at each leaf. And with my luck, if I did bring plants back, I would just end up with more eggs!

The advantage is at least everyone would be in one place! I have 9 caterpillars who should be pupating any day now. I wish they would hurry up!