Monarch Watch Forums

by **dzyg** » Mon May 29, 2006 8:17 pm

I have been finding so many many eggs, I now have 116 in the house, well actually about 30 have now hatched already. I cannot beleive the number of eggs I am finding. They are everywhere on every single milkweed plant. I still have a ton out in my flowerbeds and there are some milkweeds I didn't even get to check in our ditchline. I went out today and on about 8-10 plants I took in 50 eggs, this was from out ditchline. Is anyone else finding lots of eggs this early? I am in WI and I don't think this is normal for this time of the year but I could be wrong. If you normally gather the eggs of the Monarch to help them through, do you take every one you find or do you just take some and leave the rest? I just keep thinking about all the ants and other bugs that may have a hay day if I leave any out there.

by **harpo787** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:27 pm

I've not seen any milkweeds in the wild here in Southern Florida, but I've not looked very hard either.

Mom's got 4 scarlet milkweeds and two giant milkweeds in her backyard, and on the scarlets I've seen lots of eggs. When I go out, I don't go after eggs, but rather I hunt for young cats. I grabbed six 1st instar cats and along with them and their leaves came 2 eggs. One egg was eaten by another caterpillar (wonder how often that happens!) and the other is still sitting on its leaf, and it's been about a week. I'm starting to think it's not going to hatch. However, from past experiences, I'm not "throwing it out", I've seen a few different stages of "dead" cats/pupae that I had written off spring back to life out of nowhere.

When you get the eggs, how do you obtain them? Do you take the whole leaf it's on? Do you just take part of the leaf? How do you "store" them while waiting for them to hatch?

Hope your whole bunch hatch!

by **dzyg** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:49 am

I always take the whole leaf that the egg is on. I used to put the leaf in a little cup of water until the egg hatched. Thanks to this forum I now put the leaf on a wet paper towel and put it in a ziplock bag. Once the cats are big enough I transfer them into other containers. The other night I went through most of the bags and transferred the bigger cats to containers. I have 61 in containers now. I will need to go through the bags again as there were other cats in there but they were just hatched and I didn't want to move them yet. I see I lost a couple of eggs, they turned all black, I have seen that in the wild though too, not sure what causes it.

by **harpo787** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:37 pm

Wow, I've got 6 cats (although one is MIA) and I'm a nervous wreck! Laff...I just keep them outdoors on the whole plants just from 1st instar on up.

I'm a messy guy and could never keep 60 container type set ups under control, let alone the fact that I've got two very curious cats!

A curious occurence (don't think I mentioned it here): when I transferred the cats during 1st instar, two eggs hitchhiked when I took the whole leaves. One egg has never hatched, it just turned brown and thats it. Meanwhile the other egg was consumed by one of the cats. I wonder if this is a common occurence in the wild. I guess it might be one of the reasons why the monarch tries to stick to a single egg per leaf....

by **dzyg** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:12 am

After loosing many crysalis last year due to that parasitic fly (starts with a T but I can't recall the name) I no longer care to take in the larger caterpillars, althoough I am sure I will throughout the summer. I am having fun (although time consuming) watching them go from egg to tiny caterpillar and growing. I now have 95 cats in containers and about a dozen eggs yet. My milkweeds outside still are full of cats and eggs. I really cannot believe how many are out there. I have also found that the newly hatched and larger cats will eat eggs if they get in their way of eating. This is one of the reasons I decided to go with collecting eggs this year vs the cats, I have a better chance of getting a healthy butterfly this way and by monitoring the eggs in the bags and taking out the cats that hatch, the other eggs stay safe. I do however need to get some more containers. When they are smaller I can leave more in one container but when they get bigger I like to keep the number down per container and the cat sizes the same in each container. That way they don't get as messy and they are usually doing the same thing at around the same time so I don't have to disturb them once they J hang.

Good luck with your cats!!

by **harpo787** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:24 pm

Thanks...check out an update in the other thread about the dying caterpillars started by love bug. I've posted some pics of my plant troubles there....tell me what you think!

by **Teresa** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:00 pm

I'm also seeing tons of eggs and cats very early, never seen this before but i've only been doing this for about 4-5 years. I'm worried that all these cats will munch down my milkweed leaving nothing for the migrating monarchs.

by **harpo787** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:31 pm

I just found a "hitchhiker" egg on one of the milkweeds I picked up a few days ago. So I decided to try the paper towel & ziploc bag deal.

Is there some special method for getting the towel in there? D'oh...just occurred to me, perhaps to put it in dry and then moisten it. Oh well, there's always next time.

Anyways, so I put the leaf in, and by the time I've closed the bag, the egg comes off the leaf and sticks to the bag! Not sure if that'll be trouble for it or not.

Do I need to keep the bag stored anywhere in particular? Away from heat? Away from cold?

On another note, all of the older cats have done what they can to pupate. One died somehow...I think it fell to the floor and the ants got it. 2 or 3 others simply were unable to completely shed their skins (less than 50%) and I doubt they will live or if they do, doubt they will form correctly.

Finally, one that seemed to be ok had fallen, and when I picked it up, there was a crack in the bottom of the pupa, and an ant was stuck half way in. Safe to say that it's been "compromised"?

by **Teresa** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:13 pm

Seems to me that there are alot more preditors with them being here this early, maybe it's because i've never really paid attention this early and it's always been this way but I had tons of cats already and most are gone. Also, alot of my plants are looking weird. Curly leaves, yellowing leaves ect. Any ideas?

by **dzyg** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:26 pm

Harpo, I wet the paper towel and then ring out the excess water, then kinda flatten it out on my hand and then put it in the bag so it is pretty flat. Then I lay the leaves with the eggs on it in there and shut the bag. I have had really great success with this. I had one egg fall off the leaf before I put it in the bag. I put it back on the leaf and put it in the bag but it ended up turning all black and never hatched. I didn't have any stick to the top of the bag. I just kept the bag on some pieces of thick cardboard that I had so I could move them around easy without actually moving the bag much. I think out of the 100+ eggs I had I only lost about 10 of them due to them turning black and not hatching. Right now I have three J hanging cats and many many more searching for that right spot. At last count I had 107 cats. Good luck with your egg! Did all your cats die trying to pupate? That is really sad, hope you can get some more. I wish I could share some of mine with you. Every time I go out to get leaves I end up bringing more in the house with me. There are so many out there yet.

Teresa, I am wondering the same thing. Were there always this many this early and I just didn't notice them before? I normally started looking later in June I think but I rarely found any until July or August around here. So far my plants are still looking good, more and more shooting up every day.

by **harpo787** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:45 pm

I'm not sure the egg will hatch. It's very dark on one side but not the other...and it's been that way for 24 hours. I'd thought it was about to hatch, but here we are 24 hours later...still just an egg.

I'll get some shots of the cats that never fully shed their final "skin". My thoughts are that they'll either die as is, or they'll "simmer" in there, but will be unable to form, as they do not have the full pupa space to "cook" in there.

I believe it's 3 cats that had the problem, and one fell and the ants got to it.

by **John Beaulieu** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:03 pm

I used to feel guilty bringing in every egg or caterpillar I found. Of course I don't find every one that is there. I am finding that most do not make it to the chrysalis stage, with pedators such as wasps and spiders getting them. When I overlook a caterpillar, I will usually find a dead body eventually...

So I don't leave any in the garden if I find them healthy. Sometimes I will find caterpillars that have dark areas starting to form. I don't bring those in.

John

by **Farfalla** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:23 pm

John,
I bring in every egg I find in my garden but....I note you mentioned "black lines" ....How can you tell if a caterpillar is healthy? Because what stops me from bringing caterpillars in is the fear that a wasp or fly has laid eggs in them.I know I should be more "scientific" about it.. but the thought of a wasp emerging from a chrysalis disturbs me. :oops:

by **Gwynne** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:08 pm

Farfalla wrote:John,
I bring in every egg I find in my garden but....I note you mentioned "black lines" ....How can you tell if a caterpillar is healthy? Because what stops me from bringing caterpillars in is the fear that a wasp or fly has laid eggs in them.I know I should be more "scientific" about it.. but the thought of a wasp emerging from a chrysalis disturbs me.

Wow, that is a gross thought. I hadnt really been thinking of that. I am so overwhelmed at this point, I have stopped taking in eggs and am only taking in little caterpillars. I never stopped to think that something may have gotten to them already.

Maybe John can tell us if these eggs lay dormant the whole time and something horrible pops out like a jack in the box type of thing when the butterfly is supposed to emerge. Or if there are signs we can look for along the way if we brought home a day or two day old caterpillar.

On Wednesday, I ended up finding eight little caterpillars in a nice milkweed patch near my work. I also got a lot of leaves. I checked my milkweed patch near home on Wednesday night and everything looks so bad, like predators have invaded. I found one little caterpillar and so much leaf destruction that I felt bad and started taking in eggs even though after my last experience, I wasnt going to try that anymore.

Most of the eggs have hatched. I had to go out to get more big leaves today for the big guys and little leaves for the little guys. The patch looks horrible. I dont know if I picked too many leaves or the predators did it. I left all the eggs as I can not handle any more at this point but did take the two little caterpillars I found. When I went to rinse all the leaves off, I saw I had accidentally brought in six eggs, so I had to put them in a little baggie. I wish I could take all the eggs, but this is taking hours a day to feed everyone and clean the cages and also I dont have the space. Today I actually had to get up for a 2:30 AM feeding! Ack!

by **John Beaulieu** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:06 pm

Well, I really don't know how that wasp egg thing works. The odd time I may find a caterpillar that has dark areas and may not look quite right... those I leave. I noticed that if I find dead ones outside, they are usually very dark or have dark areas. I guess next time I find such a caterpillar I will try and photograph it. There must be other members of MW that know more about this than I do. I have been lucky and have had no problems with the caterpillars that I have brought in (so far).

by **GBMonarch** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:48 am

I have on cat that's been in a J since last night. He had a few dark spots by the end of his body. I just thought it was the markings. He acted perfectly normally, but now I'm worried he may be a "carrier". Once he makes his chrysalis, should I move him away from the others? If he has the parasites can the others catch them? Advice would be appreciated.

by **Farfalla** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:38 am

I'd be curious to know what the marks looked like? They hang from their tail end..maybe it was frass? Or the cremaster?

I have never seen caterpillars with marks/symtoms as John has.
( He will know more than me I am sure)
But there have been times in the past when I have noticed chrysalises turning a mottled black way before it would be time to emerge .( Not the transparent/black they turn on the day of emerging).
In those cases I have taken the chrysalises down,sealed them in a baggie and put them in the freezer to euthenise them.Then I disposed of them in the trash.

But I wouldn't worry yet!

by **GBMonarch** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:06 pm

To my relief he finally made the chrysalis around 10 this morning. It looks fine, but I'll keep a close eye on it.

The marks I mentioned were at the end of his body when he was a caterpillar. Just a few black marks on the stripes. He was normal otherwise, so I thought he just had strange markings.

Are there caterpillars that have odd markings or are they all perfectly striped?

Thanks for the advice.

by F3 » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:37 pm

Just registered because I ran across this thread and I'm raising between 40-50 Monarchs right now. Almost all of them were found as eggs, with a few found newly hatched.

Regarding the dark spots - I've always associated these with disease, such as Nuclear Polyhedrosis and Bacillus thuringiensis. As far as I know there are no good indicators of parasitism in Monarchs (Unless the eggs are planted on the outside of the body I suppose, like with giant silkworm moths). You just end up with a wasp or fly one day.

by **Farfalla** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:25 pm

I sure hope I don't get the wasp/fly suprise. Thanks F3. And welcome!
Right now I have 20 eggs.( The most I have had at one time all summer)
What rearing methods and materials do you use F3? It is great to hear how (and what) everyone else is doing.

by **ORANGEMUSTANG** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:30 am

i know that some parasitic wasps lay their eggs on the CAT. The larva eats the insides of the cat first. then the cat dies and they form little cocoons that hang off of the cat until they hatch. If I find a sick or dying CAT, I dispose of it. That keeps more parasitic wasp from being produced.

by F3 » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:20 am

Right now I'm using four large milkweed plants, indoors and in narrow-necked vases. The openings of the vases are plugged with plastic wrap to keep the caterpillars from taking a swim. I have a sheet of plexiglass set up in front of the plants as a buffer.

I've had to transfer the caterpillars several times as wilted plants are replaced. A small artist's brush has proved useful in moving early instars. I move later instars by hand. Any caterpillar that's preparing to molt is transferred with the section of the leaf it's on. When one pupates, I snip the leaf and transfer the pupa to a plastic aquarium.

Right now I have around 20 larger caterpillars, a few already in the final instar. Somewhat separate from those are another 20 or so earlier instars. So far there has only been one mortality, in a newly hatched caterpillar.

by **Pat** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:32 pm

I have collected about 400 eggs so far this season, and when I find them, I take them all. But not the whole leaf, unless the egg is at the base near the stem; I just use an Exacto knife to slice a small triangle out of the leaf containing the egg. The females will leave eggs on snipped leaves many times over; some of my common milkweed leaves have been snipped for eggs a half-dozen times or more and they still attract the females' attentions.

One year I tried taking only half the eggs I found, and leaving the other half to Nature. Big mistake -- virtually all the untaken eggs were quickly gone and I never saw a single little caterpillar. Often if I do find a larger caterpillar, it's been parasitized, unfortunately. So now I bring in the eggs as soon as I find them; even if I lose a few, I think they've got a much better chance in the patio rearing boxes than they do in the gardens.

by **jen** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:28 pm

Hi Pat,
never occured to me to only cut the tiny portion that the egg is found on. I have been taking the whole leaf. I guess that does seem like a bit of a waste, when there are many more monarchs to come to my garden this season, and so much of my milkweed is already gone due to growing cats!
Today i decided to check the swamp milkweed I have growing down the sides of my yard. More eggs! Funny, there were two monarchs flitting around, laying eggs as my kids and me were looking! We brought in 23 more, on the long, slender leaves of the swamp milkweed. But, NEW FOOD SOURCE! There are TONS more leaves on these plants, so I guess these new cats will be eating this variety.Thanks for the tip!
Jen

by **Orangeaid** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:54 pm

Egg gathering still going strong in NJ ! Ventured out and wound up checking out half of a field of milkweed plants by my house and came home with 130 eggs but only gathered 7 tiny cats ( i still cant believe the ratio of eggs that make it to cats. ). Well hope everyone is still having great success this year. At this point i have 80 chrysalis' in my new cages and 50 tiny cats along with the 130 eggs so i am keeping very busy this year. Dave

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