Butterflies dying young...

[harpo787]

I think this is the third time I've posted something about this in a ten minute period. I figure I stand a better chance for an answer if I spread it out.

First: the structure I hatch/keep them inside of is 4'w x 4'l x 8xh. It's screened in. It gets direct sunlight from sunrise (perhaps around 7 am) through til around noon or 1 pm.

Inside I've got 2 tropical milkweeds (only just beginning to flower), two pentas (one a dwarf penta...both different colors) and two lantanas (again, two different colors). The tallest of these plants is perhaps 2 feet from the ground. One milkweed (since isolated) has had a multitude of problems (this is the one they've all fed from) from aphids, red spider mites to ants just trying to make a home in the potted soil. Ants have tried to move into the other pots as well, and I'm having a hard time dealing with them, but I refuse to utilize sprays (except my water sprayer).

Until today I've had no alternate source of food besides these flowers. I obtained some Juicy Juice today, so that will be part of the future feedings. Can anyone figure out why things have gone so wrong? Any help greatly appreciated.

It should be noted, that I will not let this deter me. I've put too much of myself into this (financially as well as physically) to give up just yet.

[Jim]

Hey Harpo:

I think I've read all of your posts about your critters, but could you provide a brief summary here so that we get all of the facts in one place? You mentioned that the caterpillars came from your mom's house...how are your mom's caterpillars doing?

One of the first things I would suggest is to head on over to

Project MonarchHealth

and request a test kit so that you can determine whether or not your monarchs were infected.

[harpo787]

Very interesting stuff at that link Jim! Well, the two butterflies have since passed (and from what I've read there, I need to test live butterflies) but I still have both bodies (one in the freezer, one not). I wonder if I could still test them...

The cats at mom's place are "wild". She doesn't do "rearing" in the strictest sense, and I hardly do so myself. I'm afraid to keep them in containers etc.

I usually grab them when they're almost ready to pupate. From what I can tell, they seem to be healthy. Now that I think of it, I've seen to pupae in her yard that have browned. We've also had three pupae (that we've seen) that developed completely and hatched.

I wonder if it is possible to cause problems for the cats if they are transferred from one kind of plant to another (ie: from giant milkweed to tropical milkweed). Could the change in diet upset their development?

Other situations: one milkweed has been ravaged by a few pests. First, aphids (ladybugs killed them). Later, red spider mites decided to show up (they're still there...ladybugs didn't touch them for whatever reason). Now, ants are also trying to move into the milkweed pot (and the other plant pots as well!). I'm putting down drops of "Ant Kil" for them to take back and feed the others in hope of ridding them. Ant activity has slowed, but does continue.

With the exception of ants, the other plants (including two other milkweed) seem to be coming along quite nicely. The tallest of plants (including the pot) is no more than 2 feet. The cage that everything is in is 8 feet tall. Is it possible it's too much room to roam up top for a butterfly initially?

Also, the patio gets direct sunlight from sunrise until around 12-1pm. I wonder if that is too much exposure. It seems that as of late (until today's rains) the average temperature has been 87 degrees.

Thanks again for the help everyone.

[psi_chemie]

i've wondered about the temperature thing too. I have an east balcony that gets similar sun. When it is hot here (in Kansas) the sun makes the balcony WAY to hot for monarch larvae or adults. Even some plants get killed by the heat (I've lost Tomato and basil plants from scorching). Make sure it's not getting too hot in the cage, but from your pics it looks like that should't be a problem.

As for the milkweed, they switch just fine. I tried this before and asked about this same thing here before. I've switched from vine milkweed (tiny, tender leaves) to some type of milkweed that had very large, thick and tough leaves.. No problem. They ate it without hesitation.

[harpo787]

Yeah...air circulation is definitely not a problem since all sides are simply porch screening. The plants are doing WONDERFULLY with the exception of one poor milkweed which has been attacked by everything under the sun it seems.

I know that the cats switch just fine with the milkweeds as I've seen all of them take to a different milkweed just fine. I'm just curious if it messes with their insides or some such that may throw their development off. Probably not, but ya never know...

[psi_chemie]

The larvae I switched turned out great. Including the pupa I dropped (it bounced 3 times, no kidding).

None of my larvae fed on milkweed had any pests or pesticides (plants,larve collected from fields). You've got to be sure of that. All my larvae were from egg collected in wild or 1st instar.

I had all of 9 healthy, tagged and released. One thing different though, this was all during migration so maybe they were different.

[harpo787]

Well, my hope (ultimately) is to have my little garden be a "butterfly recycle center" if you will. I want to get some cats from my mom's garden (not many "wild places" left to their own devices around here!) and raise them to butterflies and have them mate and lay a few eggs (just enough to keep it going so I don't have to continue to raid mom's garden). Things are slow at the moment...only 3-5 total cats in her garden that I can see. Usually there's 20 or so scattered over 5 or 6 milkweeds.