spraying for ticks

[David Calhoun]

Mona, I did a quick search but didn't find an answer-I have lots of ticks in my yard. No flowers or milkweed are coming up yet (Charlestown IN, 38.5 degrees N, about the same as Wash.D.C.)
Can I spray for ticks and maybe since the plants (milkweed) aren't up yet it won't hurt monarch cats?
Thanks in advance. David

[blazing star]

I think you'd have to research what toxins you'd be spraying to see about their residual duration. If you have out door pets or children that play outside, I'd be wary of spraying at all.

Also consider that there are other practices you can employ to make your property less habitable by tics. See this link: http://www.ehow.com/way_5162720_nontoxi ... ticks.html

Lastly, if you spray, you won't just be spraying for tics as you'd be blanket killing most non target insects. This may prompt other problems that you'll then have to address.

I hope Mona chimes in. She's always a wealth of knowledge. I'd be interested to hear what she has to say on the topic.

[Paul Cherubini]

Professional monarch breeders use Malathion http://tinyurl.com/6v57quy
all the time (see posts below)

[blazing star]

Mona doesn't profit from the sale of pesticides, so I would wait to hear of her opinion before applying any toxins to control ticks.

[Mona Miller]

If I applied pesticides (pest (bugs) icide (killer) to kill all the ticks in my yard, I wouldn't have any butterflies in my yard. I'll pass on the pesticides.

[Paul Cherubini]

Can I spray for ticks and maybe since the plants (milkweed) aren't up yet it won't hurt monarch cats? Thanks in advance. David

You can even spray the milkweed plants if you need to.

[Mona Miller]

Paul Cherubini is a professional pesticide and herbicide salesman. If he didn't push the products that he sells, he would be out of a job. Don't look for him to give you any other advice other than dousing your yard and plants with products that kill bugs.

If you have pets and kids that use your yard, please think twice before using these products. Pets and kids are more susceptible to pesticides and herbicides. Even low levels can cause learning disabilities.

[David Calhoun]

OK, Thank you to everyone for all of the answers . I guess I'll go with my cologne," Eau de OFF" , for men. It comes in a green can. I don't want to hurt all of the birds and bugs. David

[Mona Miller]

I try to keep the grass at 3 1/2 inches. High grass promotes ticks. That's the highest setting on my lawn mower. If ticks are really bad in your yard, try spraying some lemon euc spray on your clothes. It also keeps mosquitoes off (they carry West Nile disease).

http://www.amazon.com/Repel-HG-406T-Euc ... B001DRJE1K
Repel HG-406T Lemon Eucalyptus 4-Ounce Insect Repellent Pump Spray

I don't spray myself with deet type bug repellants.

If you decide to get this from Amazon, don't forget to go through the Amazon Monarch Watch Portal so that Monarch Watch gets part of the proceeds.
http://monarchwatch.org/amazon/
Just click on the link on the above website:
"Take me to Amazon.com!"

[Paul Cherubini]

I don't want to hurt all of the birds and bugs. David

With malathion you don't have to worry about hurting birds or the future monarch caterpillars in your yard. For decades poultry farmers have used it for tick and mite control in their chicken houses:

Fowl [poultry] ticks:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... 204707.htm
"After houses are cleaned, walls, ceilings, cracks, and crevices should be treated thoroughly (using a high-pressure sprayer) with carbaryl, coumaphos, malathion, stirofos, or a mixture of stirofos and dichlorvos. Cracks and crevices should be filled in."

[Mona Miller]

http://www.monarchwatch.org/garden/creating.htm
Monarch Watch
Butterfly Gardening
Creating a Garden

...As you maintain your garden, DO NOT USE ANY PESTICIDES OR INSECTICIDES on or near your garden. Insecticides kill butterflies too. If you spray nearby areas, the insecticide may drift into your butterfly garden. Planting a diversity of species will keep pest levels down, but sometimes it's best just to tolerate a few pests. Avoiding insecticides also allows the populations of natural predators to increase, and these hunters will help reduce the number of unwanted pests....

[Paul Cherubini]

...As you maintain your garden, DO NOT USE ANY PESTICIDES OR INSECTICIDES on or near your garden. Insecticides kill butterflies too. If you spray nearby areas, the insecticide may drift into your butterfly garden. Planting a diversity of species will keep pest levels down, but sometimes it's best just to tolerate a few pests. ...

No one here is advocating spraying butterflies directly. Ticks are a serious health hazard for both humans and their pets, hence spraying is justified. Malathion, in particular, will not leave harmful residues that will interefere with successful butterfly gardening. Aphids sometimes get so out of control the milkweed wilts and dies. So spraying aphids is sometimes justified too. Ditto other pests.

Although "Avoiding insecticides also allows the populations of natural predators to increase, and these hunters will help reduce the number of unwanted pests" is an appealing thought, the net result of not spraying can sometimes be milkweed plant death and monarch caterpillar starvation.

As a matter of fact, I am currently monitoring several milkweed patches in the wild that were hit hard by aphids late last summer to see if the milkweed will recover. Early signs suggest some of these plants are not going to recover - sad.

[Mona Miller]

Paul Cherubini,

Early signs are that a pesticide/insecticide salesman will always tell you to douse your plants with poisons. Malathion has been found in the water table in some area--that's pretty long lasting to make it down that far. I don't find it funny at all and do find it sad that you ignore the real truth. This is the same truth that chemical companies also ignore. For example, the Scott company just got fined 4 million dollars for putting insecticide on the bird food they were selling. Guess what it was killing the birds. I guess they didn't want the moths eating up the seed.

You say no long lasting side effects. I've read reports of ladybugs being killed 3 weeks later by low doses of Malathion.

Of course, this is not the end of this topic for Paul Cherubini. Paul Cherubini will keep posting and posting. This forum is full of his debates. Some of his debates take years.

[Paul Cherubini]

You say no long lasting side effects. I've read reports of ladybugs being killed 3 weeks later by low doses of Malathion.

That's all hearsay. Where are the scientific reports of the alledged harm to lady bugs 3 weeks after spraying that shows the dilution rate that was used?

[blazing star]

Paul, Why do you recommend a toxin when you aren't even able to site levels to which this diluted toxin can be more safe?

Here is the CDC pocket guide to this poison. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0375.html

According to Paul, this toxin is "safe" but the CDC states the toxim's target organs are:

"Eyes, skin, respiratory system, liver, blood cholinesterase, central nervous system, cardiovascular system, gastrointestinal tract"

Do not get on skin, do not breathe in, etc. Sounds safe to me. (sarcasm off)

[Paul Cherubini]

Here is the CDC pocket guide to this poison. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0375.html According to Paul, this toxin is "safe" but the CDC states the toxim's target organs are:"Eyes, skin, respiratory system, liver, blood cholinesterase, central nervous system, cardiovascular system, gastrointestinal tract" Do not get on skin, do not breathe in, etc. Sounds safe to me. (sarcasm off)

That's all based on the undiluted pure Malathion. The 50% formulation sold by Ortho, etc., is about half as toxic as the pure stuff. And then to spray your yard you use only 2 tablespoons of the 50% stuff in 1 gallon of water. At that extreme dilution Malathion isn't hazardous to people and is also why it can also be used safely around birds (in poulty houses) and sprayed on stored grains and in-shell nuts.

Same deal with sodium hypochlorite (Clorox). The chemical company I work for sells a 12.5% concentrate to municipal water treatment plants. Our delivery trucks have to be placarded with a POISON sign because 12.5% chlorox is dangerous to breathe and damaging to human skin. And yet that very same 12.5% chlorox is added to human drinking water to disinfect it. Diluted it isn't toxic to humans.

[blazing star]

Paul, I can appreciate that a diluted toxin is less toxic but for you to say it isn't "toxic" in this state isn't true. It's a matter of the degree of exposure and I would suspect that effects are cumulative. The EPA states that, when used as per label, the toxin doesn't pose "unreasonable" risk to humans, wildlife, etc., meaning there are still risks.

http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/health/mosq ... uitoes.htm

[Paul Cherubini]

The EPA states that, when used as per label, the toxin doesn't pose "unreasonable" risk to humans, wildlife, etc., meaning there are still risks.

"doesn't pose unreasonable" is the EPA's bureaucratic of way of saying the risk to human health and the enviroment when used as according to label directions is "negligible".

True, the risk is not zero, but our society doesn't operate on a zero risk standard in regard to any chemical or human activity.

[Mona Miller]

Paul Cherubini,

My neighbor has cancer. She is having her property blasted with chemicals. You must think people are down right stupid to believe that all these chemicals don't cause cancer.

You want to make a living. You tell people it is okay. They buy all these chemicals on your advice. They get sick. You say it doesn't matter. You say it is not the chemicals because you have proof. Nonsense. You are so full of nonsense. You are an evil person.

[Mona Miller]

Paul Cherubini,

Who does the testing for these chemicals and submits them to the EPA? The chemical companies. Who often falsifies the data. The chemical companies. Who has more power and money than the US Government, the chemical companies. Who do you work for? The chemical companies. Enough said. Stop telling us lies.

[Paul Cherubini]

Paul Cherubini, My neighbor has cancer. She is having her property blasted with chemicals. (You must think people are down right stupid to believe that all these chemicals don't cause cancer.

People live along time in the upper Midwest despite the fact that 65% of the entire landmass is covered with pesticide treated GMO crops:

[Mona Miller]

My neighbor is still alive, but she doesn't have any hair left because of the chemo (radiation) treatments for the cancer. What kind of life is that, when they almost have to kill you to save you.

[David Calhoun]

Thanks to all for the advice since I started this thread. Since I don't want to hurt the bugs in my yard,I asked my son to give me some hip waders (like bass fishermen wear out in the stream) for my birthday. He got me a pair that come almost up to my chest. (I have some places where the grass is left really high.) I may loook kind of dorky, but I haven't gotten any ticks or chiggers on me since.

[blazing star]

The EPA states that, when used as per label, the toxin doesn't pose "unreasonable" risk to humans, wildlife, etc., meaning there are still risks.

"doesn't pose unreasonable" is the EPA's bureaucratic of way of saying the risk to human health and the enviroment when used as according to label directions is "negligible".

True, the risk is not zero, but our society doesn't operate on a zero risk standard in regard to any chemical or human activity.

I won't look to you to advise me of EPA's intent since you have proven bias throughout this forum; based on your profit bias. There is no "greater good" anyone can gain when spraying toxic chemicals with a goal of eliminating all insects. That's the bottom line.

[blazing star]

Thanks to all for the advice since I started this thread. Since I don't want to hurt the bugs in my yard,I asked my son to give me some hip waders (like bass fishermen wear out in the stream) for my birthday. He got me a pair that come almost up to my chest. (I have some places where the grass is left really high.) I may loook kind of dorky, but I haven't gotten any ticks or chiggers on me since.

When we go restore our land, we look like dorks, as well. My husband will wear light pants and tuck them into socks with another pair of pants over them. I simply tuck my pants into my socks. Thanks for being Mr. Green and Happy Birthday!

[Paul Cherubini]

My neighbor is still alive, but she doesn't have any hair left because of the chemo (radiation) treatments for the cancer. What kind of life is that, when they almost have to kill you to save you.

I sell organic pesticides to organic farms and processing plants too. Like Lundberg Family Farms. But despite 3 generations of growing and eating organic food, the Lundberg family gets cancer too - it's founder Harlen Lundberg recently died at 76 (google his obituary if you want to):

[Mona Miller]

Paul Cherubini,

How close are they to the GM crops? What organic pesticides are you selling them? Many organic pesticides have warning labels on them, too. Just because it says its an organic pesticide doesn't mean you don't have to follow safety directions. Did the farmer drink or smoke? Did the farmer have a history of cancer in his family? You always leave out so much that people really don't get the whole story. But, isn't that the way you work. Why should I expect you to give people all the information that they need to make an informed decision?

Paul, I'm sure that you are aware that if you give people non-label directions for application of pesticides/herbicides that you could lose your license. It's against the law for you to tell people to use and mix pesticides/herbicides in any other way than what is written on the label.