Caterpillar with black at end of butt & dead

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Caterpillar with black at end of butt & dead

Postby Mona Miller » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:37 pm

Okay, can anyone tell me why this would happen? I'm thinking its some type of bacterial infection. I was lucky that I have isolated all the caterpillars to separate cups lately so it hasn't infected the other caterpillars that I am raising.

I'm cleaning them daily and sometimes more than that. I know that caterpillars sitting in frass can be deadly.

I remember hearing something about "black butt", but when I tried to look it up, I just found mostly porno on my searches. #-o

I think I may have found what caused the caterpillar to die:
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/butt ... 31715.html
Caterpillar: Pseudomonas Bacteria (scroll down on the above website to see pictures).

I didn't take any pictures. I put the container and every thing into a plastic bag, sealed it, and threw it into the trash. I also went to wash my hands so I would not contaminate the other caterpillars.
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Re: Caterpillar with black at end of butt & dead

Postby Wyvern » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:35 pm

Normally when I have deaths in cats from general illnesses they turn a brownish color (no stench) and remain soft but firmish to the touch. If they are infected with fly parasites, the parasite emerge within an 1-24 hours after death of the caterpillar.

I had a small grouping of cats I collected at my house on August 16. This particular group soon showed signs of illness and eventually some cats died. Those that died... some turned that normal brownish color, but 2 cats (3rd instar) essentially became black liquid contained within a thin skin .. you could see the liquid jiggle within the skin of the cat if you moved the cup around and if it leaked out... stunk - definitely not the normal illness related deaths I get. The remaining cats from that group "recovered" and went on to pupate. The next odd thing I noticed was.. one chrysalis started turning black within an hour of finishing while 4 others turned black within 24-36 hours. The rest of the chrysalis were fine and the butterflies emerged today perfectly healthy (except for 1 whose wings are crinkled a bit because she lost her grip and fell to the bottom of the rearing container before the wings were fully dry). Of the chrysalis that turned black I kept them to observe thinking maybe a wasp infestation may have been the cause, but since the others emerged ok today I went to throw out the black ones. One of them broke open and this foul smelling liquid poured out and it stunk up the place like you would not believe.. ugh.

The cats I collected 2 days before and the group I collected 3 days after the sick group I collected... perfectly fine. Not sure why just one group would be sick but the others not. you would think that it would have shown up in at least the latter group that was collected if not the earlier group. The patch at my house has been dry.. no wetness or anything in the past couple of weeks.

ah... yes... definitely viral caused.. this explains exactly what this group had.

http://www.teachingwithmonarchs.com/disease.html
Polyhedrosis Virus – “Melt”

This disease is also known as ‘melt’. Caterpillars and chrysalises with melt literally melt. The caterpillar turns into liquid which drips and splashes across leaves to be eaten by other caterpillars. Each caterpillar which ‘melts’ contains literally a billion virus particles. When a caterpillar eats these particles, it will ‘get’ the disease. The stench of a ‘melted’ caterpillar is horrible.

Nuclear polyhedrosis virus is characterized by a caterpillar dying and hanging by its middle legs. C polyhedrosis virus is characterized by a caterpillar dying and hanging by its rear legs (prolegs).

Six hours of full sunlight will kill the virus particles. Remember, however, that the underside of leaves or plants is not exposed to six hours of direct sunlight.

This disease is so effective as a caterpillar killer that pesticide companies create sprays to use in gardens, fields, or forests to control undesirable caterpillars.

Polyhedrosis virus occurs as CPV cytoplasmic polyhedrosis virus or as NPV nuclear polyhedrosis virus.
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Re: Caterpillar with black at end of butt & dead

Postby Mona Miller » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:53 pm

So far, no other caterpillars have gotten sick. The website that I listed also talks about Nuclear Polyhedrosis Virus (NPV). Never enough information.
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Re: Caterpillar with black at end of butt & dead

Postby NickiM » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:23 pm

The fact that someone would deliberately spread a disease that kills butterfly caterpillars along with "bad" caterpillars really makes me angry. But, then again, I worked in a grocery store for 16 years and no one ever bought produce with "spots" on it. We can't have it both ways, either we learn to cut out a few bad spots on our fruits and vegetables or we'll end up killing all our insects. I saw a documentary about the disappearance of honey bees, and in one area of China they've sprayed so much that all of the fruit trees have to be pollinated by hand!
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Re: Caterpillar with black at end of butt & dead

Postby alletahg » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:54 pm

This explains a lot. I had one chrysalis that turned black, and when I went to remove it a very smelly liquid seeped out. I don't know how there was only one, since all of our eggs and cats came from the same two plants, and when I picked milkweed for them I'd take a few leaves from each plant. Guess we just got lucky!
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