Help! Green fluid from all my caterpillars

[sassypriscilla]

Hello, This evening we noticed my caterpillars acting lethargic. There is green fluid all over their paper towels in their containers. Some may even be dead. They were all fine this morning. I have 8 of them in separate containers, all different stages. Two days ago I noticed my neighbor spraying some chemical on his flowers and I think he hit mine, too. Could they be poisoned? What can I do to help them?

Thank you.

Sarah

[sassypriscilla]

Update tonight - from what I could find online, it appears they had diarrhea. I got new milkweed - the best I could do was from further away from my neighbor's yard - and put the caterpillars in new containers. 6 look OK and 2 look like they won't make it by morning. I will update in the morning. I hope to simmer down, too, as it really irritates me that my neighbor would spray my garden.

[Mona Miller]

Sprays have a very bad habit of drifting; especially, when it is windy outside. My neighbor's lawn service kills some of my flowers--cosmos. It is supposed to kill weeds. I try to catch the lawn service and tell them where the boundary line runs, but I have no idea when they will spray.

You did the right thing. Offering new food saved half my caterpillars last year. A nursery that usually has safe food started buying milkweed from someone who sprayed their milkweeds. That is a typical behavior for larvae that has eaten poison milkweed to start leaking green fluid. I contacted the nursery and they found a new source of milkweed. Many teachers shop there and I knew many of them would not know why their caterpillars were dying.

[sassypriscilla]

Thank you so much for your reply. One died, 3 are eating and 3 are alive but not moving a lot. I have a stash of butterfly weed that was nowhere near the milkweed.

I also talked to my neighbors and asked if they could put a barrier up when spraying their plants. They were nice about it but confirmed they sprayed a pesticide to kill japanese beetles. How long will a pesticide last?

Thanks again for your help.

[Mona Miller]

You need to ask them what it is and then look it up.

Tell them to use milky spores on their lawn. That will be more effective and not cause problems for pets, humans, and caterpillars. The milky spores go into the ground and attack the grubs.

I don't know what's going on in my area, but we've had very few Japanese Beetles--not complaining, just observing. I used to pick them off by the gallon jug. If you take a gallon jug (milk jug) and cut a circle not the handle side, you can put in dish detergent and water. Make the circle about 3 inches in diameter. All you have to do is put the jug under the plant and knock the beetles off. They drown in the soapy water.

[blossom]

Butterflies falling after emerging from chrysalis.

We've been battling poisoning all season also. First time around it was our fault as our hemlocks were sprayed with horticultural oil. There was no insecticide, but the oil itself is toxic it seems. (We've been paying attention to the news from the oil spill in the gulf.)

After that, we took leaves only from young plants that had not sprouted at the time the spraying was done. However, quite a few eggs were laid on older plants, so maybe that had an effect. Or maybe someone else sprayed in the neighborhood. We didn't notice anything.

Anyway, we had about 12 survivors out of about 15 sick caterpillars. The survivors all successfully pupated so we thought we had gotten through it pretty well. Now though, we are beginning to think that there may be residual effects. Out of 5 emerged adults, 4 fell at least once immediately after emerging. We were able to save 2 of them and they were released, but the third one just would not hook on to any rough surface until too late - her wings remain slightly crumpled and we think she will never fly. The fourth collapsed after a few attempts at reattachment and is still alive but in severely weakened condition.

We have raised over thirty monarchs in the last couple of years and none of them ever failed to hold tight to the chrysalis after emerging. Has anyone else noticed this kind of problem?

[Mona Miller]

That can also be a sign of OE. It causes the butterflies to emerge weakened.

http://www.monarchparasites.org/
Project Monarch Health

I've been hearing lots of people having trouble with OE (Ophryocystis elektroscirrha) this year. The above website will give you loads of information.

http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2007/07/d ... spore.html
The Dreaded OE Spore

[blossom]

Thanks for your reply, Mona. It is wonderful to be able to "talk" with you!
Since then four beautiful apparently healthy adults have emerged, two without any problem. The other two could not hang on to the chrysalis but managed to crawl up on the screen and complete their wing expansion. There was also one more disaster who was barely able to pull itself out of its unusually small chrysalis and is stuck with badly crumpled wings.

I've just examined one dead butterfly for spores of OE and didn't find any, so I'm still hopeful it's not that. I will examine the others when I get my hands on some clear tape.

I'm wondering if environmental conditions could be at play here. We had a mild spring with plenty of rainfall which caused plants to flourish and grow fast. That was followed by a month of dry and very hot weather. The milkweed leaves became tough and leathery and the plants drooped. Maybe any toxins - natural or chemical - became concentrated. This was when these eggs were being laid and hatching out. We've also noticed that nothing else is eating the milkweed either. At this time there are no milkweed bugs or fuzzy caterpillars that we've seen in other years.

Is a puzzlement!
Carol

[Mona Miller]

Yes, milkweed can build up toxins if stressed.

Are you rearing these inside? Watch where your caterpillars are placed. Air conditioning is bad on butterflies.

[aprilandtim]

I need an answer!! HELP... 3 cats eclosed..1 split proboscus and couldnt fly...one looked perfect and couldnt fly..last one crumpled wings. 5 cats into J form ..one couldnt turn into a chyrsalis fully..4 others look "deflated" and were oozing clear fluid. Last 4 cats oozing green when hitting 2/3rd instar...I euthanized. We have no poisons...however did notice last month beetle traps in other areas ( 3 miles from home). I kept them all seperate according to stages. Kept habitats clean..dry..out of cold. Tried very hard to not cross contaminate. Im heart broken. This was 1 week ago. Now I have seen 2 new cats emerging from egg and one newly hatched on my milkweed. I have read about alot of this 'Green Oozing" this season on forums and still not sure what is going on. Is there something in my garden now that can stick around and infect the newly laid/hatched cats? Should I cut all milkweed down and wait till next spring to try again? Should I try and rear the new ones I saw today..what are the chances this will happen again? I dont know what to do!!! Should I just let nature take course...leave them alone ( we have tons of spiders and these little guys will be eaten tonight if I dont do anything) loosing them all was VERY hard on me

[Mona Miller]

http://www.monarchparasites.org/
Project Monarch Health

The only thing that I can recommend is that you thoroughly sterilze your containers and make sure you rinse them thoroughly, too. Bleach residue is not good for caterpillars. Project Monarch Health suggest a 20% bleach solution. Look in the section on rearing Monarchs. Also, thoroughly wash the milkweed before using it.

I feed young caterpillars tender leaves and older caterpillars older leaves. Don't give older instars 3-5 young leaves. Don't give 1st to 2nd, older leaves.

Make sure leaves are dry. I also use a papertowel in the bottom of the container were I raise them. I clean them morning and night. If they haven't eaten the milkweed all up, I just take out the paper towel with the frass and put the milkweed back in. I put a 5 oz paper cup in the middle of the 13 cup glad container, drape the papertowel over and lean the milkweed. Don't forget to put the top on (tops have small holes that I put in with a corn holder). The raised part made by the cup helps the frass (poop) stay off the milkweed. I change the papertowel, but not the cup. I go through a lot of papertowels during butterfly season.

That is what another person who is having trouble on the Monarch Teacher Network is going. He is resterilizing every thing. It is a lot of work. I hope this helps.

http://www.eirc.org/website/Programs-+a ... twork.html
In case anyone is interested, this is info on Monarch Teacher Network.

[ilsa]

Mona,

I sure wish we could see a picture of the setup you describe above.

Ilsa

[Mona Miller]

I can take some pictures and post them. When I get two seconds. Yesterday from 9-4 butterfly count then playing catch up with yard work and feeding caterpillars. Today, another butterfly walk. I love summer time.

[blossom]

Thanks for your suggestions Mona. I wondered about the effect of AC, so our cages are in a closed off room with an open window and no AC. I think we did lose a few small caterpillars early on because of the AC.
We are into a new group now and watching carefully. So far they seem healthy. For what it's worth I have been watering the milkweed every 4 - 5 days. It's so dry here that all the vegetation is wilting badly if not watered.
I am using the paint strainers over some plants. There are too many eggs for us to take care of them all. It is a joy to see all the butterflies this year.

[Mona Miller]

I hope you have a screen over your window. Flies can be a problem even with butterflies in containers with netting. The paint strainers do not keep flies from laying eggs in the caterpillars if they hang out on the side of the netting. I had a very big problem one year and found out when fly larvae starting popping out of my caterpillars and pupae.