advice on collecting and hatching eggs

[Mona Miller]

I explained to my nursery that many teachers come to them for milkweed. That the teachers may not know what is killing their larvae and that the kids would be very saddened by watching their caterpillars die. That nursery actually called their distributed and found out what had been sprayed and found another source of milkweed that didn't have pesticides.

[sbannister]

Summerluver,

Those mesh laundry holders are a good idea! I was wondering if the mesh is small enough to keep out ants if you used it outside. If not, it's still a good idea for inside. I find the mesh containers sold specifically for butterflies do not hold up in really hot water when you are sterilizing them because the plastic tends to tear. So I might try your idea.

Thanks,

[sbannister]

Summerluver,

Those mesh laundry holders are a good idea! I was wondering if the mesh is small enough to keep out ants if you used it outside. If not, it's still a good idea for inside. I find the mesh containers sold specifically for butterflies do not hold up in really hot water when you are sterilizing them because the plastic tends to tear. So I might try your idea.

Thanks,

[mflutterby]

Four of the caterpillars went into the j position last night. We figured the rest shouldn't be far behind since they hatched around the same time. How long will it be until they pupate and then form the chrysalis?

[Mona Miller]

Yes, it is a hard lesson to learn. Thankfully you are on the forum with other people who know what's going on. We've had this happen to us. Nurseries think that people want beautiful plants. They don't take the time to try organic methods. Butterfly people don't care if their plants have holes in them.

[firewind33]

Good Morning to you all! It's been a few days since I've posted- I've been very busy with my 50plus cats. It seems' we contracted the dreaded OE. I was loosing about 1 a day to it. I have been following the instructions on how to contain and eliminate the disease- cleaning all my containers and sanitizing them - also I've noticed that the cats will leave a watery, yellow or light green stool if they get infected so they are getting easier to identify and separate from the rest. I think I contracted it by searching new areas for cats and I brought it in myself! I hope we have contained or eliminated it- I've decided to stop bringing in any new eggs or cats until all the ones I have go to chrysalis- then I can completely and thoroughly clean my containers and start again. Probably will be about a week since I have cats in all stages now. The trials and tribulations of raising monarchs! That's all for now.

[sbannister]

I've found that I have to let all the cats in the cage pupate and emerge and then clean/sanitize the cage before I add new cats. If not, after 2-3 generations, disease starts. I wish that I could just keep adding newly found cats, but it won't work. So I have to have multiple cages, which require more tending, or else just wait.

[Mona Miller]

You should always thoroughly clean between broods. Isolate caterpillars that appear sick. Also, keep humidity down. Clean frass out daily. Provide fresh food. But, if your caterpillars have OE, there is nothing that you have done that can stop it. Their mother passes it on to them. When they eat the egg shell, they get spores. One spore can multipy to hundreds. Some make it through to adulthood, but those pass the OE on to others--they are carriers.

http://www.monarchparasites.org/
Project Monarch Health -- Click on the topics at the top.

http://www.mymonarchguide.com/2007/07/d ... spore.html
Monarch Guide -- The Dreaded OE

http://www.butterflyfunfacts.com/butterflydisease.php
This website will tell you how to clean the eggs, but it is risky. Unless you know what you are doing, you could destroy your eggs.

[mflutterby]

Mother nature answered my question. The four have pupated. Now we wait for the other 15 to do the same. I hope the milkweed will last.

[tartandtiny]

Congrats on a successful batch thus far. In a couple of weeks your butterflies should emerge.
As you noticed, once they J hook, they go to chrysalis within 24 hours. Did you get to see them pupate? I have only seen it once, with my very first cat - which was amazing and a wonderful coincidence.

I had two butterflies emerge last week but they were unable to fly....so sad I just put them in my butterfly garden with some flowers and let nature take its course.

I also have one cat that was in a J hook last night and this morning we have a beautiful chrysalis. They are truly beautiful. I am always amazed at the beauty of the gold ringlets and dots upon it.

Good luck to you and keep us posted

[mflutterby]

We did witness the whole thing. We missed the first one, but sat and waited for the second one. Missed the third and saw the fourth. We were video taping and taking pictures of the process. It is truly amazing.

[mflutterby]

This morning we have 11 more getting ready to pupate. We have two more that should be ready today and then one little one that we found outside the other day. He has a while to go.

[tartandtiny]

Always an amazing process. I currently have 6 1st instars, 11 2nd instars, 1 3rd instar and 1 chrysalis plus I woke up to 3 newly hatched babies this morning!

My 6 year old daughter and I are having a wonderful time with our brood.

[Mona Miller]

I looked down at my newly planted bed of butterfly week (A. tuberosa) and found several caterpillars. They seem to be in a hurry now. I guess they know that it is time to go on vacation.

[mflutterby]

Tonight we have 15 in their chrysalis and 3 in the j position. And then the one we brought in who seems to be growing really, really fast, oh yeah and one egg.

[mflutterby]

We have 19 chrysalis and one 2nd instar cat, which came on our weekend getaway with us, so we could feed him. Anyhow, one of the chrysalis is at the stage where you are able to see the wings through it. What is the time frame, if all goes well, for the butterfly to emerge?

[Mona Miller]

You have them inside and how low are you keeping your air conditioning.

Usually 3-5 eggs hatch
10-14 caterpillar
10-14 pupae (chrysalis)

But if it is hotter, things speed up or cooler, things slow down.

[mflutterby]

It is probably 78 or 79 degrees in the room that we have them in.

[Mona Miller]

The pupa/chrysalis should emerge in 10-14 days at that temp. No direct sun, but bright light. I have a garden window that provides a good source of natural light.

[mflutterby]

We have two beautiful monarchs this morning, unfortunately it is supposed to be raining all day. We need to feed them. We have cone flowers and the butterfly bush, is that what we need?

[Mona Miller]

They don't usually need to eat the first day. Do mist with a water bottle? The second day, offer some food, but make sure there are no hitch hikers on the flowers--spiders, etc. They like both coneflowers and butterfly bush.

[mflutterby]

We have 14 monarchs today. I have not been misting the butterflies. That is something I should be doing? If the weather is good later today we plan on releasing them or should we wait until tomorrow?

[Mona Miller]

You are in NC, no hurry. If you want to keep them another day, just put them into a dark room or cover with something dark. This will keep them quiet. Tomorrow, when the sun is out and it is warm, let them go. This will give them another day to really harden their wings.

[mflutterby]

We went ahead and released them a half hour ago. The weather for the next few days calls for rain and today is sunny and nice. They were very active and fluttering around in the pavilions. I hope they will be okay. How do you not get attached to these amazing critters? We have four more in the chrysalis stage and one more caterpillar to go.

[summerluver]

Congratulations on all your beautiful new monarchs! That's good news after all the adversity they've been put through this year. I'm anxiously awaiting to see if my chrysalis's are healthy after my O.E. epidemic. We had thoroughly sanitized the cage, and I rinsed off all milkweed with a mixture of water with 10% bleach. For the first time, however, I had two caterpillars develop lateral black lines down their backs. They also have a black line on their chrysalis, (I think these are the ones that had the lines, but I'm not sure.) One seems to be getting dark, so I'm anxiously awaiting its arrival and hoping all is well. To answer the question about my laundry bag cages, the mesh is rather large and won't ward off ants or much else, so I'd keep them inside. I always like to feed my butterflies some diluted honey water before I release them. I don't know if it's for their benefit, or mine. The directions are on monarchwatch.org. Will keep you all posted on my new arrivals. I currently have 16 chrysalis's and about 25 or so caterpillars.

[summerluver]

Yeah! Two healthy butterflies arrived today, and I've got my big cats climbing to the top of my habitat to hang for their final molt. Unfortunately, I've also got between 6/7 butterflies that will be emerging tomorrow, so it's going to be chaos in there. I set up my caterpillar condo, and put the 2 butterflies in the bottom tier to release tomorrow when it warms up, and am putting the climbing cats into the other 2 remaining condos. Hope all goes well in the nursery!

[Mona Miller]

I think they are worse than toddlers. They even throw fits and tandrums. But, they are so beautiful, we forgive them.

[mflutterby]

We have 4 more healthy monarchs that emerged on Sunday. The weather was horrible yesterday and today is chilly. Tomorrow should be a good day for release. I have given them some melon and some butterfly weed to eat. In the meantime I have one 4th instar cat, 1 2nd instar, and 1 chrysalis. It has been an amazing experience for all of us.

[tartandtiny]

Currently awaiting my 24 chrysalis - from two different batches. some should emerge this week - the remaineder next week. I have two 3rd stage and 2 eggs. Are these eggs too late - seems like it will be cold before they emerge here in CT

Why mist them?

Regarding getting attached....many people have asked me for a cat -- I simply cannot give them up. To raise them from the egg, they are my babies!!! I need to be sure they are properly cared for and sucessfuly released. Call me selfish, but I just cannot part with them.

[Mona Miller]

When is your hard frost date? The adults can withstand temps down to 25. They need at least 50 degrees during the day to fly.

Are you raising them inside? Inside temps as opposed to outside temps would help the cycle go faster.

[Mona Miller]

Regarding getting attached....many people have asked me for a cat -- I simply cannot give them up. To raise them from the egg, they are my babies!!! I need to be sure they are properly cared for and sucessfuly released. Call me selfish, but I just cannot part with them.

I do share eggs, caterpillars, pupae, adults. That attachment you feel can be shared with others. I also share milkweed. And, people share butterflies and milkweed with me. All ages, all stages. I've been helping a friend in the mountains of Virginia. Sometimes, the Monarchs skip over his place. Now, they don't. I believe somehow they pattern where they have been raised and future generations come back to that place to lay eggs, nectar, and visit us for a while.

[mflutterby]

We released our 4 this afternoon. It warmed up to 78 so we let them fly. Boy were they ready too. I have been trying to understand the whole migration path and well, I don't. Where does this group go at this time? The next bunch to migrate through my area (NC) are the ones that will head to Mexico? Any clarification would be so appreciated, please.

[Mona Miller]

http://www.monarchwatch.org/tagmig/index.htm
Monarch Watch Fall Migration
(Have you read this?)

http://www.monarchwatch.org/tagmig/peak.html
Peak Migration Dates

Latitude for NC 35
Midpoint 2 October
Peak in Monarch Abundance 24 September - 6 October
If you look up your latitude it would be somewhere between 34 to 36.

Those Monarchs ready to fly between Sept. 24 to October 6 will be those migrating to Mexico. Someone said that this year, the dates are 2-3 weeks early. So, you could even start around the first or the second week of September to see what happens if you want to tag. Tag a few early and then tag a few later.

[summerluver]

Had 7 beautiful butterflies emerge today, which I had the neighborhood kids help me name, tag and release. I bring everyone in my neighborhood into the event and even keep track on a plastic lid posted in my yard of the number of males and females born each day. About 10 other Cats are going into their chrysalis's. (One was stubborn yesterday and insisted on settling in among the middle of some chrysalis's that yielded butterflies today that kept walking around him, so he got upset pretty often.) We'll have to see if the stress will affect his development. Hope those of you in Va, and S.C. see my tagged babies coming through later this month. The biggest threat here in NJ in the migratory route is making it across the Delaware Bay successfully. A couple years ago as masses of them embarked over the water, a squall broke out and lowered the air temp rapidly. A friend that was on the beach at Cape May that day and told me she watched hundreds being washed up on the shore and many others falling into the sand around them because their body temps had dropped and they could no longer fly. Unfortunately, hundreds drowned that day. Everyone watching felt terribly helpless. Praying for no squalls this year. We're planning on a weekend down there at the end of the month to see the hundreds migrating through ourselves. I've heard it's spectacular. Will let you all know how it goes, as we send them down to you.

[mflutterby]

What do you think the survival rate is if we weren't taking the eggs inside and raising and releasing them? I just want to know that we made a difference with the 18 we released.

[sbannister]

I think it's only 1% of eggs making it all the way to eclosing in the wild. So we make a big difference, I think.

[Mona Miller]

Yes, we make a difference if we can also save or make habitat. Habitat loss is another major factor. We could raise and release millions of butterflies, but without the habitat they would not be able to reproduce and survive.

This is why the Waystation program and other programs like it are so important.

http://www.monarchwatch.org/waystations/
Monarch Waystations
http://www.monarchwatch.org/waystations/download.html
Download the Promotional Brochure and hand it out to your neighbors and town/city managers.

[mflutterby]

Last year we set up the waystation and were thrilled to see 3 monarchs. This year we decided to become more involved and started the egg collecting... I need to update my pictures on the monarch.org website. It looks a lot different from when we first registered it.

[Mona Miller]

Wow!! That's great to hear.

[summerluver]

I've been a Waystation for 3 years now, and finding those eggs on milkweed I know I'm providing for them is very satisfying. I'm continually frustrated, however, with the municipal and state road departments that keep whacking patches of milkweed, Queen Ann's Lace and other butterfly larval food sources down because they're viewed as unsightly weeds. I've been speaking to school children as well as spreading the word in my own class each year about the need for milkweed and their ecosystems, the affects of pesticides, etc., but I'd like to actually see some progress around my town and state. I'm going to approach the town garden club and ask to speak at a meeting, in the hopes of garnering support in establishing some "Butterfly Nursery Areas" locally. I'm thinking that many voices will be louder than mine alone, and we can apporach the township in identifying areas that can be nurtured and protected for our butterflies.

[Mona Miller]

A. tuberosa (butterfly weed (wish they wouldn't call it weed) and A. incarnata (swamp milkweed) are great for cultivated gardens. Some highway depts. are adding tuberosa to their highway plantings.

[mflutterby]

Our milkweed seeds have opened up and are starting to fly. I collected what I could so that we can plant them where want them and not where ever they land. We will be prepared for next year with plenty of milkweed. We have several butterfly bushes but noticed that this year they didn't bloom very well. Last year they looked better. We cut it back and the bush itself is huge but lacks the blooms. Butterflies this year have been sparse as well. We have been getting a lot of rain and some think that has something to do with the decline in the butterfly population.

[Mona Miller]

Same here and it was late July before the butterflies came. Still haven't seen some species.

[mflutterby]

#19 emerged this morning and #20 is in the J. #21 is still growing, I would say another week or so for him. Maybe he is a late bloomer. So what would be the latest that they would be able to head to Mexico. I am concerned that our cooler temps may be a problem with #20 and especially #21. I gave up naming them

[tartandtiny]

I had asked this question too, Mona mentioned something about when you get your first frost.

In central CT we get our frost around October 5th.

I have two cats that just hatched from their eggs this morning. They will just make that deadline. Fingers crossed.

[Mona Miller]

I think the problem begins with trying to get to Mexico when with that first hard frost all the nectar sources are killed. If they don't get out of town before it gets too cold, they have no place to stop to dine on their way.

[summerluver]

You can also learn a lot about their migration (along with that of whooping cranes and hummingbirds) through the website Journey North. They're even tracking the migration, and you can see subtle changes on the map this week with sightings - they're moving out of the northern areas. It's another valuable source I've spent a lot of time with learning all I can.

[Mona Miller]

I love Journey North. In the fall, they call it Journey South. They update it every week:

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/
Journey South

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/monarch/index.html
I love their graphs and pictures.

[summerluver]

Thanks Mona - You're so good about putting all the links to everything in your postings. I look them all over and put them in my butterfly folder.

[mflutterby]

We now have 2 chrysalis left to go. Our weather here has been really cool. It is only in the 60's today. It feels as if fall is starting early. Not seeing any butterflies to speak of, lots of migrating birds though.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and helpful hints with this being our first official experience raising monarchs. I'll let you know how #20 and #21 do in week or two. I do hope fall holds off for them to fly where they need to go.