advice on collecting and hatching eggs

[Mona Miller]

As long as it is sunny, 60 will do. They can fly at temps above 50.

[summerluver]

I'm located in NJ on the Eastern U.S. migration route, because they tend to fly through here and then hug the coastline down to Cape May. I don't know if you're also on this migration route, but they haven't been through here yet. I can see on the maps posted on "Journey North" that they're on the move through the Great Lakes migration route, but I don't suspect they'll be moving through here until around Sunday or after when the rain that's forecasted clears up and the weather warms up again, giving them those warm thermal currents they love so much. Will let you know the day I see them moving through here. They always gather on my butterfly bushes to refuel before continuing on their way.

[Mona Miller]

http://rkwalton.com/mmp02.html
This doesn't look good. They haven't recorded any Monarchs for the first week on September 2009

[summerluver]

Wow! Having no monarchs flying through to count is a first. I'm hoping that the fate of the Monarch isn't really this dismal, but that perhaps no one has gotten a chance to record any numbers yet. I'm really worried about the big O.E. outbreak this year, and lack of healthy milkweed for the larvae due to the fungus it suffered from. We'll pray that some big numbers start to show up this coming week as the weather warms up.

[Mona Miller]

I emailed the Cape May people to ask them what's going on. I'll let you know what they say.

[mflutterby]

Hope to hear some good news.

[Paul Cherubini]

There's good news in the upper Midwest where thousands of monarchs have been observed nectaring and clustering in the vicinity of the vast monoculturers of genetically modified corn and soybeans. Like this report from eastern Nebraska: http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1251512337

[Mona Miller]

It's fall there. No blooming monocultures of Genetically Modified Crops to harm insects or roundup being used for those roundup ready crops. I can't speak for everyone on this list, but I myself am not ignorant about the threats posed by Genetically Modified Crops.

http://monarchwatch.org/blog/2008/01/ro ... ant-weeds/
I've copied Chip's Note:
"*Note: Genetically modified seeds for major crops are now the rule, not the exception. In 2007, 92 million acres of corn were planted and of these 61% had been genetically engineered to express Bt toxins to kill or inhibit several types of insects, to resist Roundup, or both. Of the 64 million acres of soybeans planted in 2007, 91% were Roundup Ready. Due to the soy/corn rotation, my interpretation is that we’ve lost at least 100 million acres of milkweeds in these row crops since the first Roundup Ready plants were brought into production in 1996. This is an increase from my earlier estimate of a loss of milkweeds in 80 million acres of row crops. If you find milkweeds in corn or soybean fields, take a picture - it’s now a rare sight."

[Wyvern]

I believe the east coast had an initial early start this year as well as a significant delay due to bad weather this past week. I was seeing monarchs passing through in mid August, laying eggs like crazy everywhere.... then nothing. The last batch of eggs I collected was this past Thursday and it was less than 2 dozen eggs - most of them dumped on a single plant among several plants available.

[Wyvern]

If you find milkweeds in corn or soybean fields, take a picture - it’s now a rare sight."

My friend on the eastern shore ....lots of farms there. The big milkweed patch I collect from happens to be along a commercial tomato farm. The other milkweed patch down there that I was able to find (about 2/3 smaller than the big one) actually is situated on the edge of a field that rotates corn, wheat and soybean crops. I don't collect from that smaller patch because it is located on a tight curve of roadway and there is no safe place to pull a car off to park (unlike the other patch location). I'm going to be taking a bunch of seed pods down with me this Thanksgiving and scattering them along the edges of the road on the field sides. I did plant a few seeds this spring in a small garden I established in his yard that is about 4 feet away from the edge of one of the fields and got some seedlings to sprout (protected by tithonia plants) so i don't think the genetic crop stuff will be an actual issue. So now I have high hopes for eventually getting a massive patch started along his semi-private road - no heavy traffic to be a danger when collecting... just not sure how much brackish water milkweed can tolerate from storm surge high tides spill overs.

[Mona Miller]

Plant swamp milkweed is more water tolerate. I don't know about salt tolerant. Are those crops, GMO or regular crops?

[Wyvern]

I assume genetic since you can't really find milkweed down there other than those two spots.... and I've looked all over for miles.

And of the swamp, common, showy, and tropical milkweed seeds I planted in the garden down there - only the common sprouted...so not quite sure what to make of it.

[Mona Miller]

Interesting on the common sprouting and the other ones not sprouting.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-WYcUx ... as&f=false
Field guide to coastal wetland plants of the southeastern United States By Ralph W. Tiner

[Paul Cherubini]

Chip does not claim monarchs are no longer abundant in these genetically modified corn and soybean row crops growing regions. Here is yet another recent report of hundreds of monarchs clustering in a small farm town in eastern Nebraska that's surrounded by genetically modified corn and soybean row crops:

http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1252804736
"They covered our paradise trees at sunset.....my guess was 300 to 500 maybe more i did
not go all over the grove to see how many more there might have been"

Indeed, it's looking like this autumn will be a GOOD abundance year for monarchs in Midwestern areas like Nebraska and Kansas and I believe the overwintering colones in Mexico will be larger than they have been the past two years.

Frogs are also doing well in these herbicide treated corn and soybean Midwestern row crops. I see dozens of them as I walk along the margins of the fields.

Like this:
Landscape view: http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... dscape.jpg
Closeup view: http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... gclose.jpg

So one has to be careful when reading scary sounding reports like this one about herbicides killing frogs: http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsant ... 080505.cfm
Monsanto's Roundup Herbicide Killing Off Frogs Worldwide

In other words, if you read the reports carefully, you will notice the Scientists do not claim frogs are no longer abundant in the herbicide treated areas.

[Mona Miller]

How many of these Adobe Photoshop pictures are being submitted to the EPA for evidence that these crops are not harming wildlife?

Pesticides, herbicides, KILL WILDLIFE

[Paul Cherubini]

You'll be seeing more and more Videos from me in the future since they will remove all doubt that my still photos might have been altered with Adobe Photoshop.

[Mona Miller]

Videos can also be edited.

[summerluver]

Mona - Good news from Cape May. They've posted the count for the first week and I think it was around 26 average. Will keep checking for 2nd week averages. Also, as a 25 year subscriber to the Organic Gardening magazine, I was among one of those lobbying against Monsanto to produce these genetically modified varieties of seed, (along with allowing sewer sludge to be considered an organic material and method of fertilizing crops). I'm going to dig around to see if they have any concrete studies on the affects of herbicides, pesticides, etc. on wildlife to try and help Paul understand the basic problems involved with these practices.

[Mona Miller]

Paul understands. He is an entomologist working for chemical companies. He posts this stuff anyway, like we'd think this was real material.

I just took a class on "Human Ecology". This is how humans affect their environment. The teacher had us researching foods and it wasn't pretty. We eat some of the most contaminated foods. I was researching rice and one article said not to feed inorganic rice to children because of the level of pesticides. Well, many people feed inorganic rice to children. I see the consequences in classrooms.

[mflutterby]

Yesterday we had 2 monarchs coming through to fuel up on the butterfly bush nectar. We will keep watching for them. It looks like one of the two chrysalis should be emerging today as well.

[Paul Cherubini]

If any of you think my photos of abundant frogs and monarchs next to vast fields of genetically modified, pesticide treated corn and soybean crops in southern Minnesota are not real (doctored using Photoshop), consider the various Journey North photos and reports that substantiate mine.

Like this photo and report from Lynn Rudeen who lives on a rural farm near the town of Bird Island, Minnesota (south-central Minnesota)
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1251850885

Here are two landscape views of Lynn Rudeen's cluster trees where she observed "several hundreds" of monarchs in August:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... udeena.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87 ... udeenb.jpg

Anyone who still has doubts may wish to write to Lynn directly for verification: "LynnRudeen" <rudeens@rswb.coop>

[summerluver]

Mona, - as a special education teacher I can directly see the affects that chemicals have on my students. Being an immunocompromised individual myself, it's amazing how many chemicals I've had identified that make me sick as well. A few years back when the U.S.S.R. was still Russia they had a food crisis, and we offered to send them shipments of wheat to help out. They actually refused it because Europeans considered U.S. wheat to be contaminated due to all of the pesitides it was treated with!

Had 7 butterflies emerge today - looks like about 3 tomorrow. My last little pillar is climbing up for his metamorphosis tonight. Do you guys offer a support group for those of us that miss these little guys so much when they leave us? I don't know how I'll handle the empty nest syndrome when my kids leave - I get depressed when my monarchs and hummers do!

Paul, you should really considering leaving the dark side and join a group that works for the good of us, our planet, future generations, and all the beauty God gave us. I probably wouldn't have developed cancer at age 36 if I hadn't run through the mosquito fog the pesticide trucks were spraying in the campground we vacationed in during the summers when I was younger, with all the other kids! Why don't you consider bailing and joining the Rodale Institute? Their research farm in Emmaus, PA is really beautiful!

[mflutterby]

Today was amazing with #20 emerging. I watched and waited and nothing happened. I wanted to make sure not to miss it so I carried the butterfly pavilion where ever I needed to go in the house. While I was in the office with the pavilion, there was complete silence. I could actually hear when the chrysalis started to open up. It was amazing. We have witnessed several of them emerging, but I have never been able to actually hear it. This is the caterpillar that we had to take with us on our weekend getaway. He will be released tomorrow. Outside today there were 2 that came through. One of them was missing a good portion of his wing. How in the world would he even make it to Mexico. When the two were together it was as if they were chasing each other and just flying in circles so gracefully. It was pretty spectacular to see. What a day.

[summerluver]

Of my 7 I had the priveledge of watching one as it was emerging, cheering along the way. It's truly a miracle. Unfortunately, when I got home about 5:30 tonight we went about tagging them for release before the sun set, and grabbed one which must have come out in the afternoon and the wings were still damp. Is there anything we can do to try and fix her scrunched wings now? We just put her back, hoping she could pump them up again, but I don't think that's possible for her now.

[Mona Miller]

If they were still damp, try to straighten a bit and then let her hang. If her wings are still crumpled, nothing can be done. I wish I knew how to help them at this point.

[Paul Cherubini]

Paul, you should really considering leaving the dark side and join a group that works for the good of us, our planet, future generations, and all the beauty God gave us.

People like me in the pesticide and genetically modified crop business feel pretty good about our jobs because we know our products enable farmers to grow twice as much food on the same amount of land than an organic farmer could. So if all agriculture went organic, a huge portion of existing forest and other wilderness land would have to be cut down and plowed for agricultural purposes. And we also delight that despite pesticide use, butterflies, frogs, birds and other wildlife continues to be abundant on farmland. Birds are so abundant that on my August trip to the crop monocultures of Minnesota, a bird (swift) hit my rental car's windshield. I got out of the car hoping to find the bird was just knocked unconscious, but after a few minutes it's body heaved and stretched and the poor bird stopped breathing and died http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/4ALC/swift.jpg

[Mona Miller]

That bird that you hit was migrating. Wildlife moves, they migrate, pesticides and herbicides kill so many creatures. Why in the world would you be happy about that? You have no idea how much dies because a visit does not tell you what happened while you were gone.

Pesticides and herbicides are changing our world--the worst kind of pollution. Those crops, several countries won't buy them. Several countries won't even plant them.

In our Potomac River here in Virginia the fish are sick. One of my classmates found a fish that had sores all over its body when he tried to go fishing. Our oceans, rivers, steams, and creeks are all sick. And, you try to say that every thing is fine. It is not fine. Stop looking at your bottom line and start caring about where you live and what you are helping do to it.

I'm curious, have you ever watched Futurama.

[mflutterby]

Released #20 a few minutes ago. He is up in the willow tree getting his bearings, I imagine. In the meantime there is another monarch on our butterfly bush. This one is in very good shape, not like the one from last night.

[Paul Cherubini]

You have no idea how much dies because a visit does not tell you what happened while you were gone. Pesticides and herbicides are changing our world--the worst kind of pollution.

Above normal numbers of monarchs have been moving South from the farming areas of the upper Midwest where the genetically modified crops are grown:

09/14/09 Scott City, Kansas:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1252987907
"We have a few Chinese Elm Trees surrounded by farmland.
On our 1.75 acre home site we estimate that there are over 1,000
roosting in our trees."

09/15/09 Seward, Nebraska:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1253044598
"The last 3 evenings have brought in hundreds of monarchs to
the cedar and pines around our house. We are in the country."

09/13/09 Kearney, Nebraska
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1253027203
"We have hundreds of monarchs roosting in our oak and maple trees."

09/12/09 Ravenna, Nebraska
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1252804736
"Monarchs covered our paradise trees at sunset. My guess
is 300 to 500 maybe more. I did not go all over the grove
to see how many more there might have been."

09/11/09 Osceola, Nebraska
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/j ... 1252710492
"There were probably 10-15 on one branch alone, so
there may have been 100+"

[summerluver]

Had a pleasant suprise today while going around the yard to cut some flowers for the dining room table. While checking out the zinnias in the veggie garden that are under the tropical milkweed, I noticed one big cat just sitting there, (among the millions of aphids!) I had given up on finding anymore so I let the aphids do their thing. After I grabbed him, I looked things over and found two smaller ones. After I brought them inside, I decided to take a look around the back common milkweed garden to see how many tussocks were hanging onto the few diseased scraps of leaves left, and I spotted a big cat sitting on top of one plant with a shred of leaf left. I brought him in too, but separated the big cats from the smaller ones, because I know they may have paracites or be diseased. Unfortunately, my crumpled little butterfly still can't fly even though I tried to put some of the extra stickers on her wings to strengthen them. Had 2 more emerge today, but they'll have to wait until the lousy weather that's forecasted gets better in a day or two. I'd like to go out and spread some milkweed seed, because the plants that came up on their own actually came up better and faster than the ones I raised in my light garden last spring. Does anyone know if I should try to do it here in NJ in the fall, or should I wait until about March. I know that the seed needs to be refrigerated, ( like daffodils) for a while before planting in order for it to grow properly.
Paul, I don't think you're persuing a receptive audience here. It's great that you're trying to help by raising butterflies, but we're not buying anything that might be used as positive information about a prouduct that's being used to treat plants and bugs that God didn't create. Rodale studies have been consistently showing for the last 30 years the negative affects of pesticides, etc. on our environment, and pictures trying to prove the contrary arent really an objective and measurable offer of proof. I still think you should consider coming over to the healthier side of the planet and sharing your knowlege to help provide a greener and healthier world for everyone.

[mflutterby]

#21 emerged on Saturday, but do to the constant rain we have been getting I am not able to release her. I have put a butterfly bush bloom and a piece of watermelon in the pavilion with her, in the hopes that she will eat. I have not seen her eat yet. Of course I am not watching her constantly, but I would hope that I would see her on the flower getting the nectar. I don't know how many more days of this rain we will have. This is the longest that I have had to keep one. Any suggestions? Should I leave the light on or off during the day for her?

[Mona Miller]

Newly emerged Monarchs will not feed for up to 2 or 3 days in captivity. Mist the cage so that they can get moisture. You can also hand feed:

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/monarc ... gFink.html
Journey North, Dr. Linda Fink, handing feeding Monarchs

If you note that the abdomen is shrinking that means it is hungry. I use gatorade to feed them. After they eat, you can tell by their pump abdomens. Or, you can dip a q-tip in gatorade and put that up near their proboscis. They taste with their feet and antenna. If they aren't banging themselves against the cage, leave the light on during the day.

[summerluver]

The 10pm news is on behind me and they just broadcast the terrible rains and flooding Georgia is getting for 3 days now...are you experiencing that too? I've found that I have to begin to force feed my butterflies using the Monarchwatch instructions. If they're healthy and captive, I haven't even been able to get them to eat by putting honey on fresh flower blossoms as I've read somewhere, nor to feed on watermelon. They're stubborn and just want to get going to Mexico. I'll have to try Gatorade in the future.

[Mona Miller]

After they dry their wings, I mist their cages with water. They do need that right away. Then, I wait until day 2 before trying to feed. But, I do continue to mist the cage with water at least two times a day.

I put some tissues in a plate, pour in the gatorade, have a bowl with clean water close by (you need to dip them in that to wash off the gatorade from their feet. I hold their wings and try to put their feet down into the gatorade. If they don't extend their proboscis, then I use a toothpick to unroll it. I've found that if you come up under their chin carefully, that you can catch their proboscis and unroll it easily. Unroll and carefully hold down in the gatorade for a few seconds. Also, hold them while doing this. I've been using one of those small Live Monarch cages for feeding. Once you get them started you can leave them to eat. They will fly up in the cage when finished. Then I take them out and wash off their feet. In captivity, they need to be fed at least once a day--twice if you have time.