Caterpillar growth...very, very slow. Please respond!

[TeacherAnn]

I'm a bit worried about how our project is going in kindergarten. The caterpillars are growing very, very slowly. Having raised many caterpillars over the years, I must say that something just doesn't seem right. I think by now they should be plumper than what they are and probably more active. One has died. Another is very dark and splotchy. One set up seems better than the others but still the caterpillars are thin.

I'm getting afraid they are slowly withering away and will die.

At what point do you think I should I divert from the experiment (we in Plan B mode) and try to raise them on milkweed from our gardens (yes, we actually have some milkweed left in southeastern PA...it's not in great shape but I could try it....)?

I work with 5 and 6 year olds so...I think the main point of the experiment (since we are not Plan A participants) would be to somehow get the caterpillars through the life cycle, with or without Plan B... but how long do I wait until I change the set up and try feeding them live plants? If we had the full life cycle, we could still compare some basic observations with those in space...

Or, could it simply be a problem not about food but about temperature and/or light? Should I increase temperature and light before I change my plan with the kids and begin feeding leaves?

If I changed one thing to help them along, would it be light, temperature, or food?

Please respond ASAP! Thank you!

[nelsondr]

I have lost 3 of 6 caterpillars so far. I think I'm about to lose a 4th. It is just too small. The last one just shriveled (sp.??) away. If I had live plants, I would use them. I would absolutely need to conduct an experiment using scientific method to find out, but it [i]seems[i] these caterpillars are not doing as well.

If you think the caterpillars are not going to make it, I, personally, would explain that you are not following 'the rules,' and that you think the caterpillars need their natural food to make it. I think the children would understand and would rather see their own caterpillars make it, if possible. It wouldn't be what they would do on the ISS, but I feel this exception is reasonable and warranted.

That said, I think this is an amazing opportunity and am grateful to be participating!! I am not in any way complaining. The efforts to pull this together for maximum classroom participation is fabulous!!

[Mrs P]

I would definitely switch to live plants if possible. As a Plan B team myself I think the purpose is for students to compare what is happening in gravity vs micrograv. If you don't have any caterpillars to use for comparison there is really no experiment. Maybe a little "homegrown cooking" will perk your cats up.

[cgrendy3]

Yep, I agree with others here. Do whatcha gotta do to get the cats through the cycle. I've had to break from protocol also... but, anticipating all the kids 'ooo-ing' and 'ahh-ing' at the emergence makes up for any lack of scientific prudence I should have... lol...

(yes, we actually have some milkweed left in southeastern PA...it's not in great shape but I could try it....)?

And, TeacherAnn, I've actually found some tiny milkweed seedlings still growing where I live here in east-central Indiana! I thought about using the seedlings, but, so far, the diet seems to be okay for the cats I have at home anyway! (I posted a huge comment in the caterpillar mortality thread about our three 'school cats' who have not faired so well on the diet.)

BTW... only two days until Thanksgiving... and I have some annual impatient plants still blooming on my front porch and my perennial gaillardia looking just as healthy as they are in summer!! Even the verbena still have some scraggly blooms here and there! Unbelievable. I love the 'warm' weather, but it's a bit scary this late in the year, eh?

cheers

[nelsondr]

Aaaahhhh! I went to a friend's house for two days, came home, and all my larva food is gone! GONE! My husband thought it had something to do with Thai take out. I am waiting to hear from Monarch Watch about possibly getting some more, but I sure wish I was with you all in a warmer place with plants! I'm near Chicago.

[TeacherAnn]

Hello, everyone!

Just thought to update on the subject of the slow-growing caterpillars...

We increased the room temperature around the clock. Though we had maintained 70 degrees for the first 6 days, we increased the temperatures, averaging 72-75 degrees.

Within 24 hours the caterpillars became more active and began to eat the food, producing larger rounds of frass and growing a lot faster.

I witnessed them moving off of the food, traveling around the container, and returning to the food to eat.

The second thing we changed was the way we were supplying daylight 12 hours a day. Instead of relying on the overhead lights of the classroom, we set up a small lamp beside the caterpillars and monitored the daylight accordingly.

I removed two caterpillars from space set up due to discoloration and splotchy areas on skin. I gave them their own set-up but as I did not have enough space food for another set up, I fed them fresh milkweed leaves from the plants in the garden that had survived the first 2 light frosts here in southeastern PA. Though still splotchy and discolored, they really perked up and ate leaves ravenously.

Evening of Nov. 16 was the first sign of a J form with any of our cats; we had 2 J's at once, both made by the splotchy discolored cats who were eating milkweed. By late Thanksgiving eve, their chrysalides had been formed and do look fairly normal.

Tonight I have others in J form, too. I

I am very, very curious about the splotchy, discoloration. I worry that it is OE but have no idea how they could have contracted it. Can OE spores "live" in a classroom? If so, how do they live and for how long? Could we have infected the cats as we transferred them to their habitat if we had OE spores in the classroom? Where do those spores come from anyway? If we have OE, how do we get rid of it?

So incredibly intriguing.

Cheers and a great shout out to the STS-129 crew for an amazing flight and safe return this morning!

[mrb010203]

I have lost 9 of the 12 I started with in Plan B. I ran out of food quickly somehow, so I have been trying to stretch it using distilled water. The caterpillars made it to the 3rd instar OK, but then started growing really slowly and eating less when they got to the 4th. I had 3 caterpillars start to pupate while it appeared they were in their 4th instar, hanging in the j-postition. The next day they were dead and were bloody messes, I presume from their splitting themselves when they weren't ready to. I have one that made it to the chrysalis, but it is very small. Two left to go, hoping for the best. I'm in Minnesota, so there is no fresh milkweed anywhere. Any suggestions? Disapppointed in my own caterpillars, but watching them on the ISS has been interesting.

---Reid Bonshire
reid.bonshire@district196.org

[texas butterfly]

Our space cats had problem with growing too slow. Think they will all die.
We still have one cat left.

Regarding OE. OE is a spore. Think of it like a seed. The spore will fall off of the infected adult into a habitat or onto a milkweed plant.

The adults can't spread OE among themselves.

However, if a spore falls on a milkweed plant for example and a hungry caterpillar comes along and eats the milkweed with OE spore then that caterpillar will have OE.

My understanding is a caterpillar has to ingest an OE spore in order to get OE infected. The number of spores ingested would determine the rate of infection. At least that is what makes sense to me.

This is why it is so important to clean habitats used each year. I'm being told a 20% bleach solution is what is needed to ensure the spores are killed/destroyed.

I would also think that it is why it is important that milkweed get frozen back each year. I wonder if bleaching the soil around the milkweed plants after freeze would also be beneficial? Seems to me fresh growth equals no or low OE contaminated milkweed.