Hardware - version 2

Questions, comments, suggestions, etc. regarding our monitoring program.

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Hardware - version 2

Postby Jim » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:35 am

Based on further research and communications on and off this board we have come up with a new hardware design for our temperature loggers:

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These new kits will be ready for distribution in March and rather than have you return your existing loggers we will provide simple instructions on converting them to the new design. We will send all beta testers an updated kit free of charge that will give you two complete temperature logger systems for the study this spring. We will also offer new kits at the original cost for a limited time to all of those that expressed an interest in this program but were not chosen as beta testers and then the kits and other hardware will be available online via the Monarch Watch Shop.

The first thing you might notice is that we have separated the logger from the radiation shield. There are several advantages to doing this, among them: it reduces surface to surface heat transfer to the temperature logger, it makes it easier to remove/replace logger in the field, and allows for greater versatility in using the logger for other projects (additional temperature loggers will be available with or without the shields).

The radiation shield will be white, rectangular in shape, slightly larger than a business card and made up of a thicker expanded pvc material (we are in the process of negotiating this fabrication).

The larger bracket (corner brace) and its two mounting screws will be galvanized steel and the nuts/bolts will be stainless steel. Using a two-hole bracket will offer greater mounting stability and also allow for better airflow; the galvanized/stainless steel will make the entire unit pretty weatherproof.

As far as assembly is concerned, the bracket will be more or less permanently attached to the shield using a machine screw and lock nut (the type with a nylon insert). The logger will come mounted in a plastic keyfob which will slide onto the machine screw and be held in place with a wingnut.

Scott ("MILW") made the point that tiny parts may be lost in the field - if anyone has other suggestions as to what we could use to keep the keyfob firmly attached to the screw (we can't allow it to spin out from under the shield) please let us know! At least the screw is now stationary so this should make things easier to handle. We will provide the dimensions of all hardware to make any quick replacement only a hardware store away.

Please let us know what you think and if you have other feedback that you haven't left here yet about any aspect of our new temperature monitoring studies please drop us a line or start a new topic here to discuss. Thanks again for your participation!
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L bracket

Postby Melusine13 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:26 pm

From the photo, it looks like you have an extra hole on the horizontal part o the L-bracket. Someone mentioned the possibility of losing small hardware. If I am not mistaken, the only hardware that will be removed is the wing nut (or loosened) to remove the fob. I don't think the fob has an actual hole that the screw goes into, I think the fob end is "C" shaped so it just slips around the screw then you tighten the wingnut. If only the wingnut might be lost, you could put another 'permanent' screw in the empty hole on the horizontal part of the L-bracket, where a person could screw the wingnut in the interim, when retracting the logger fob (but is seems just as easy to replace the wingnut on the existing screw). A person could affix a small canister, or zip lock to the pole where the monitor is anchored, to store the small pieces also. (staple an empty plastic container with a lid? onto the stake to store the small pieces?) --on a different note, just a reminder that the monitor should not be placed where a sprinkler will hit it with water---the assumption is that that you keep the button under the 'credit card' sized piece to keep the monitor dry?--Melusine 13
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Nix part of last missive

Postby Melusine13 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:45 pm

Okay-I just reread the posting and the fob does mount directly on the screw-my mistake. To keep the fob from 'spinning' out from under the cover, you could splay open a large 'alligator' clip to make a cradle around the fob. place the clip 'wings' flush against the underside of the 'credit card' sized shield, then thread some garden twist ties under the clip, up through both wings then on around the top side and twist is tight. OR just detach the wings from the clip and use JB Weld to affix the clip directly to the underside of the shield (but with the opening facing the ground) but so that the fob fits between the parts of the relict clip hanging down. This would keep it from spinning out from underneath... Just ideas based on looking at the picture---You need some sore of U shaped braces to keep it from swivelling either direction...
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Postby MILW » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:02 pm

I think it looks pretty good- holding the monitor in place while tightening the wingnut snugly should keep it from swivelling out from under the shield. I think we may still see a spike at sunrise and sunset, depending on how open the field location is... it should still be about 0.5 m above the ground, right? I think the fobs are waterproof too, there was a photo of one in a goldfish bowl!

heh, looking forward to spring now!
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New Temperature Logger Unit

Postby Jim » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:48 pm

We just received our fabricated shields! We're waiting on a few other components but hope to have the new materials shipped out this month. All beta testers will receive materials and instructions for "upgrading" their existing loggers to the new design and additional loggers and kits will be available soon. Here's a mockup of the new Temperature Logger Unit - mounted on the back of my office door :)

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Postby Don Spearance » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:53 pm

Great idea on the office door, Jim!! Do you think it would work on the back of my classroom door so that I can show the custodians how inconsistent the heat is in my room in the winter??
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to receiving the new hardware and for the end of winter here in Massachusetts.
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Postby MILW » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:35 pm

Nice new logo too! I hadn't seen that one before.
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sprinklers vs loggers

Postby mschwegler » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:56 am

Hi Jim-

It has been mentioned that the logger should not be in the line of fire of a sprinkler. If this is correct, is this a waterproof issue or a temperature drop issue?? It will be difficult for me to find such a spot - could a plastic shield be used?

Thanks, Marti
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Postby Sandwhy » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:07 am

Don: LOL!!!

Jim: Can't wait to receive the new testers. Looks great!

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Re: sprinklers vs loggers

Postby Jim » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:25 pm

mschwegler wrote:It has been mentioned that the logger should not be in the line of fire of a sprinkler. If this is correct, is this a waterproof issue or a temperature drop issue??

The loggers are waterproof so no worries there - if the logger was constantly cooled by a water bath the readings would likely be thrown off a bit, but normal watering shouldn't be an issue (after all, the whole point is to expose the logger to the same environment caterpillars and milkweed are exposed to). The sun shield is necessary since we do not have a logger that will absorb heat the same way plants and caterpillars do - we'd have to dabble in the realm of robotic monarch caterpillars to do it right and we're not quite prepared to pursue that just yet :wink:
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Postby Jim » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:53 pm

Don Spearance wrote:Do you think it would work on the back of my classroom door so that I can show the custodians how inconsistent the heat is in my room in the winter??

That would certainly be another application for these temperature loggers - and it's the kind of suggestion we want to hear from participants. Our goal is to create lots of fun and useful projects for this technology - not only monarch related.

We need to develop some sort of protocol for submitting ideas (Title, Materials List, Duration, Datasheet, Intro/Background Information, etc. - similar to a standard scientific experiment) - if anyone wants to start the ball rolling with this please post it here in the forums and we'll try to work something out together.

Thanks!
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New Logo

Postby Jim » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:55 pm

MILW wrote:Nice new logo too! I hadn't seen that one before.

Glad you like it...it's one of three we have been working on and they're all just about ready for primetime :D
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When will new thermochrons be sent out?

Postby Sandwhy » Fri May 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Hi Jim!

Just wondering if these have been sent out yet, as I have not received mine. Of course I haven't seen any monarches yet either... but the milkweed is up and ready for action!

Thanks -

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Postby Pat » Tue May 22, 2007 11:10 am

Not complaining or anything, but I haven't received mine either (may 22 '07) and am eagerly awaiting it!
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monarchs are here!

Postby MILW » Tue May 22, 2007 11:23 am

We found our first eggs yesterday in madison WI. My buddy saw some adults up by Eau Claire this past weekend too.
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Postby Sandwhy » Tue May 22, 2007 11:44 am

Congrats on the eggs, Scott - looks like they flew right by Evanston on thier way to Madison but left no presents! I saw my FOS monarch today in the garden. Hope it sticks around...!

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Shipping Status

Postby Jim » Sun May 27, 2007 9:32 am

Just in case anyone didn't receive this message via email a few days ago...

Hi all:

We have finally received more temperature loggers and will send the
kits out on Tuesday and Wednesday via UPS - again, sorry for the
delay and thank you for your patience!

Have a great weekend :-)

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Postby Sandwhy » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:40 am

Howdy - already posted this elsewhere, but will post it here too in case people are not reading the other thread:

Hi Jim,

Got my kit! and have three minor issues:

1) I had to use a USB port on the back of my Intel Mac, NOT a keyboard port. The OneViewer app would freeze up if I did the latter (this happened previously, but just wanted other Intel users to be aware!)

2) Is there an *easy* way to snap the old thermochron into the new fob? Because I haven't figured out how to yet!

3) I'm disappointed that there aren't decals/something on the white shield that explains what this is all about; I have many curious passers-by that are always interested in what's going on in my garden - unfortunately I'm not always around to answer questions. It seems that at least the monarchwatch website address or the groovy new MW logo could have been emblazoned on there.... I understand everything costs something though, so this probably was the last thing on everyone's mind.

Just my 3 cents. :)

Thanks for the help -

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addendum to logger instructions?

Postby MILW » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:59 am

hi Jim, I got my loggers too, and putting them out today, see if we can capture the big storm system that's supposed to pass through in a few hours!

One note- on the installation instructions, I think people should mark one logger as 'high' position and the other as 'low', otherwise, when you take them off the post and bring them in to retrieve results, there is bound to be a lot of confusion over which is which.

Well, I'm going out to install them in the Waystation now!
cheers- Scott

and here it is!
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Last edited by MILW on Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wbl56 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:13 am

I received the new and improved temperature monitoring kit yesterday :D and installed both loggers in my garden...north side of the post and at 0.5 and 1.5 meters. A couple of observations to report. First, I agree with Scott...somehow you need to indicate which logger is which so when you retrieve the data you know at which height each data set was collected. In future kits, it might be worthwhile to supply with two different colored key fobs to aid in distinguishing the two loggers visually. Alternatively, it would be a good idea to write down the i.d. number of each logger in your journal (the number can be found etched on the logger or in the left-hand window when you insert the logger in the reader).

My second observation is that I am recording temperature differences between the two loggers, but it occurred to me that I do not know if the differences are real or not. #-o So I did a little "logger validation." I missioned each of the loggers to record temps at 1 minute intervals and then dropped them both into a glass of water; both in the same glass. I left them there for 10 minutes or so, took them out and dried them, and then retrieved the temperature data. From the data, it appears that it took about 2 minutes in the water to equilibrate with the water temperature before I got a flat temperature reading...this was true for both loggers. What is interesting is that they do not record the same temperature. There is a difference of almost 1.0 degree F (0.9 degrees, to be exact) between the two. In a week or so, I am going to repeat the validation sequence and see if the temperature difference between the two loggers is consistent. Assuming it is, there will need to be a correction factor incorporated into the data analysis to determine if the difference between the two heights is real and by what magnitude.

In the meantime, I am trying to figure out how to "dress up" the 6' post the loggers currently live on. A vertical sundial, perhaps?

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Postby MILW » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:51 am

Now that we have these running, it would be interesting to record larval development in the same envronmental conditions as are being recorded. I don't have any eggs at the moment, and protecting them from predation would be tricky. I was considering 'tenting' some leaves, but that would probably make the microenvironment inside hotter than is being recorded by the thermocrons...
Ideas, anyone?
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Postby Jim » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:04 am

Sandwhy wrote:1) I had to use a USB port on the back of my Intel Mac, NOT a keyboard port. The OneViewer app would freeze up if I did the latter (this happened previously, but just wanted other Intel users to be aware!)

I haven't been able to duplicate this on any of my Intel Macs so if anyone else experiences this please let me know...

Sandwhy wrote:2) Is there an *easy* way to snap the old thermochron into the new fob? Because I haven't figured out how to yet!

Placing the logger face down on a flat surface and pressing the keyfob onto it seems to work best - some require a little more force than others.

Sandwhy wrote:3) I'm disappointed that there aren't decals/something on the white shield that explains what this is all about; I have many curious passers-by that are always interested in what's going on in my garden - unfortunately I'm not always around to answer questions. It seems that at least the monarchwatch website address or the groovy new MW logo could have been emblazoned on there.... I understand everything costs something though, so this probably was the last thing on everyone's mind.

I had everything ready to go and then the fabrication guys decided that routing out the printed pieces would be too difficult due to their size. In the interest of time I gave them the green light to fabricate the blank pieces. I hope to revisit this and get the printing worked out. The other issue is thermal conductivity - we don't really want to apply too much dark ink on the surface of the sun shield as this could reduce its effectiveness.
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Re: addendum to logger instructions?

Postby Jim » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:09 am

MILW wrote:One note- on the installation instructions, I think people should mark one logger as 'high' position and the other as 'low', otherwise, when you take them off the post and bring them in to retrieve results, there is bound to be a lot of confusion over which is which.

I agree - as Wade mentioned, each logger is laser etched and digitally encoded with a unique ID but something on the fob is a good idea. What do you suggest? Some distinguishing marks made with a Sharpie? Perhaps just #1 and #2 to keep them straight...
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Postby MILW » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:48 am

I used Sharpie on the yellow holders, just marked "Hi" and "Lo" on them. I don't think the black sharpie will fade or rub off, I guess we'll see after some weather exposure.

Oh and I was thinking about this today- I mounted the loggers off to the side of the milkweed patches; might it not be better to place it right in the center of the patch?

Another point I'm curious about is the discrepancy of larval development vs degree days recorded at weather stations- is it that the larvae are developing faster than they ought to?

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Postby Sandwhy » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:23 am

Thanks for the replies Jim. Guess my Mac is finicky or ??? Very curious.

Still no luck popping the darned thermochron into the new fob. Even the hubby could not do it!! We'll keep trying.

Good plan with the "Hi" and "Lo" markings on the fobs - might I suggest a coat of clear nail polish to protect the markings? Worked like a charm on the previous sticker that was on the first orange shield - didn't fade or disappear after a season of being outside. :)

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Postby Jim » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:27 pm

Sandwhy wrote:Still no luck popping the darned thermochron into the new fob. Even the hubby could not do it!! We'll keep trying.

Hmmm...did you rub off most of the foam tape? I suppose you could do it with a vice or even a pair of pliers - either way I'd pad the logger and keyfob with a rag, paper towels, etc. to prevent scratches/gouges. If you just can't get it I can mail you another fob or two to try - as I mentioned, some seem to require a bit more force.

Sandwhy wrote:Good plan with the "Hi" and "Lo" markings on the fobs - might I suggest a coat of clear nail polish to protect the markings?

Good idea! :D
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No problems here...

Postby SWAMPMILKWEED » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:07 am

I put up both L brackets and fobs as instructed - everything went like clockwork. I started new missions on both thermocron w/o a hitch. The One Viewer application was still in good shape and no problems setting parameters, etc. Only not-so-smart thing I did was place the L-bracket a little too high. I could not see the screw head to place the screwdriver -duh. I too was worried about mixing up the thermocrons and misnaming the data. I'll get the sharpie out and fix that. Otherwise, we are in good shape here....even have brand new eggs. We watched the female oviposit yesterday on the waystation mws. She chose the common over blfy for those of you who keep a tab..... Happy bflying !
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logger validation

Postby Judy Molnar » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:40 am

Jim
Wade made an excellent point June 7:

My second observation is that I am recording temperature differences between the two loggers, but it occurred to me that I do not know if the differences are real or not. So I did a little "logger validation." [snip]...What is interesting is that they do not record the same temperature. There is a difference of almost 1.0 degree F (0.9 degrees, to be exact) between the two. In a week or so, I am going to repeat the validation sequence and see if the temperature difference between the two loggers is consistent. Assuming it is, there will need to be a correction factor incorporated into the data analysis to determine if the difference between the two heights is real and by what magnitude.


Should we all validate our loggers before mounting them high and low?

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Thermochron Validation

Postby wbl56 » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:58 pm

Just a follow-up to my previous post regarding the validation of the thermochrons. I repeated my validation experiment (missioned both thermochrons to record temps every minute, dropped them into a glass of room temperature water for about 15 minutes, then retrieved the data) with results identical to my first validation about 3 weeks ago. That is, my 1.5 meter thermochron reads 0.9 degrees higher than my 0.5 meter thermochron. The manufacturer's specs for the model thermochron I (we?) have (http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4023) indicates a temperature accuracy of plus or minus 1 degree centigrade over the temperature ranges we are likely to be recording. This translates to plus or minus 1.8 degrees farenheit. It is possible, then, that if both thermochrons happen to be reading at the opposite ends of the specifications, there could be as much as a 3.6 degree farenheit difference between the two thermochrons even if they are reading the same actual temperature. :shock: This potential difference should be taken into consideration before drawing any conclusions about significant temperature differences between the upper and lower thermochron at any given location. [-X
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logger

Postby chanceychelsey » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:14 pm

Looks great!!!
However, as I am a "new egg", what is a logger, and what might one do with it?
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Re: logger

Postby wbl56 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:09 pm

chanceychelsey wrote:Looks great!!!
However, as I am a "new egg", what is a logger, and what might one do with it?


There is a pretty good explanation of what the loggers are and what we hope to accomplish with them in the topic "Background Info" in this forum. Should answer all your questions...
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Initial Results for Temperature Loggers version 2

Postby wbl56 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:19 pm

I got all of the temperatures pulled for the month of June :D and thought I would see if I can see any trends. The lower logger (0.5 meters) was up and recording for the whole month whereas the upper logger (1.5 meters) missed the first week of June. Still, there are a fair number of data points to play around with.

A visual inspection of the data do not reveal any obvious differences in the temperatures recorded by the two loggers. :? While there are some minor differences, there are not obvious trends, such as the upper logger reading consistently higher than the lower, etc. Correcting for the fact that my 1.5 meter logger records temps 0.9 degrees higher than the 0.5 meter logger, all of the recorded temperatures of the two loggers for the period from 7 June to 30 June differed by only 0.07 degrees. I'm not sure that difference would prove to be statistically significant.

So then I hypothesized that the 1.5 meter logger, which is not shaded, might read higher during daylight hours than the 0.5 meter logger. The 0.5 meter logger receives some shade from the surrounding milkweed which I would expect to result in lower temps. Conversely, I hypothesized that the 1.5 meter logger might read lower temperatures during hours of darkness, because I would expect the ground to cool more slowly than the air and the 0.5 meter logger being closer to the ground might reflect that differential cooling effect. So I seperated the temperature data into temps recorded between sunrise and sunset for my location and temps recorded between sunset and sunrise and calculated mean recorded temps.

My hypothesis did not prove to be true. :shock: In fact, just the opposite occured, that is, the average daytime temp of the 1.5 meter logger averaged 0.3 degrees cooler than the 0.5 meter logger, and the average night time temperature of the 1.5 meter logger averaged 0.3 degrees higher than the 0.5 meter logger.

My best guess as to an explanation for these results relates to daytime watering of the garden. The 1.5 meter logger is pretty much in the direct line of fire of our garden sprinkler, and although we have been trying to limit our watering, when we do water it lowers the temp of the 1.5 meter logger by 10 or more degrees while the sprinkler is on. That may explain the cooler daytime average of the upper logger. For the month of July, I am going to try to limit my watering to night time hours, and see if the results differ at all. The other possible contributing factor is that early in June, the milkweed that surround the post with the loggers attached weren't very tall. Consequently, there was not much difference in the amount of shade each of the loggers received during the day for much of the month. Now the milkweed has exceeded 0.5 meters in height and has filled in, and the 0.5 meter logger spends much more of the day at least partially shaded by the milkweed then it did earlier in the month.

So, I am not abandoning my original hypothesis just yet. I will wait and see what the July data look like.

In the meantime, anyone care to send some rain my way?? :wink:
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