Monarchs -- Pre-Migration

[donnap27]

ok, now we've determined approximately when they will migrate ...
i've released 70+ monarchs so far this season from Latitude 42.
Do we know where THEY go until they die?
A. Do the July monarchs continue to migrate north?
-- Do they lay their eggs and then continue North, or
-- Do they go North then lay their eggs
-- Do they just hang around where they were hatched, mate, lay eggs, and die
B. Do the later monarchs released, say in Aug,
-- Do they stay around and lay eggs in the same area, or
-- Do they move around in the area, or go farther
i suppose next year i could tag some early on, (maybe with last year's tags) and see if i find them again anywhere. But that would mean catching them, and i'm not good at catching butterflies.
Has anyone done any research on this ?
Just wondering .....
thanks, Donna

[Mona Miller]

http://www.uoguelph.ca/news/2010/07/u_o ... ch_23.html
U of G Research Reveals How Monarchs Fly Away Home

Apparently, some head east according to the research that was recently done. I particpated in this research. I sent Nathan a few Monarchs and some milkweed from two locations. I was told that my Monarchs were from the Great Lakes area. I captured them in June.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2314&p=11302#p11482
Here are the peak migration dates. Looks like your peak migration is the beginning to middle of September.

Monarch travels have to do with the weather, locating milkweed, and the time of year. Gravid (pregnant) females do get pushed north along with those migrating. There is a bit of mating even with migratory females, but no egg laying. I've noted that some Monarchs will stay in an area for up to a week if they have good food sources. Males will stay until they pass away. They will take up territory in an area with good host and nectar sources and try to mate with any females visiting the area. They will also protect that territory from other butterflies and even birds (yes birds). I've seen them chasing pretty big birds.

You can also take a permanent marker and put something on the underwing. This could be read with binoculars (close focus are preferred for butterfly watching).

[Paul Cherubini]

i've released 70+ monarchs so far this season from Latitude 42.
Do we know where THEY go until they die?
A. Do the July monarchs continue to migrate north?
-- Do they lay their eggs and then continue North, or
-- Do they go North then lay their eggs
-- Do they just hang around where they were hatched, mate, lay eggs, and die
B. Do the later monarchs released, say in Aug,
-- Do they stay around and lay eggs in the same area, or
-- Do they move around in the area, or go farther

The July and early Aug monarchs at 42 degrees N are short lived (approx. 6 weeks)
reproductive monarchs that wander in various directions (up to at least 200 miles)
although tagging has revealed some do not travel very far.

Now up on the upper peninsula of Michigan (47-48 degrees N), the newly emerged
early Aug monarchs are already mostly in diapause and beginning to migrate south.
In some locations (Peninsula Point, Michigan) they can be found clustering in the
evening.

[Paul Cherubini]

Apparently, some head east... I sent Nathan a few Monarchs and some milkweed from two locations. I was told that my Monarchs were from the Great Lakes area. I captured them in June.

Did you catch these monarchs from the Herndon, Virginia area? If so, it would appear they flew SOUTHEAST from the Great Lakes area: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78 ... erndon.jpg
Do you agree?

[Mona Miller]

Did you read the article? My specimens were from Vienna and Herndon, Virginia.

http://www.uoguelph.ca/news/2010/07/u_o ... ch_23.html
"“This means that the recolonization of the east coast is by second-generation monarchs that hatched around the Great Lakes and then migrated eastward over the Appalachians,” Miller said."

I don't know why I bother answering your posts. All you want to do is debate whatever I have to say. I could be right and you'd still find fault. Why?

[Paul Cherubini]

Mona, both Herndon and Vienna, VA are very close to Washington DC which is SOUTHEAST of the Great Lakes: http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78 ... erndon.jpg

So I am puzzled why the authors of the study said your Herndon and Vienna, VA butterflies "flew east over the Appalachians" when their results indicate some actually flew SOUTHEAST over the Appalachians.

[Mona Miller]

Why don't you email Nathan Miller and ask him that question. Here's his email address: nmiller@uoguelph.ca

[Fishslime]

you two crack me up - glad we're on the same team - thanks for all your concern with Monarchs

[Mona Miller]

Actually, thinking about where the great lakes are and my house. The study said they flew east. The question that wasn't asked was where they flew after they flew east.

[donnap27]

Mona ...
--thank you for your continued help and explanations. i read the article from the web page, that was a great study that you participated in with some very interesting results. how exciting that you are possibly getting some of the monarchs that i raised ... that is so cool ! as a Great Lakes resident, i am proud to be an integral part of the monarch migration process. great explanation why monarchs arrive later the east coast (or SOUTHeast coast .... is there such a place?
--also fascinating to know that the values in milkweed can be measured in monarch wings and that you can tell where a monarch came from because of the milkweed that they ate ... science is awesome, even though i can't come close to understanding it
--i am also happy to know that some of the migrating females get to partake in the mating experience, yet do not have to undergo the 'birth-ing experience' .... lucky them
--so, i can use a permanent marker right on the butterfly's wings? doesn't harm them? that would be easier than my trying to capture them.
Note to Paul: you are not 'adding value' ...
i thoroughly enjoy this site ... thank you for your time !
Donna

[Mona Miller]

If you mark them with the permanent marker, make sure that their wings are thoroughly dry. I was thinking you could mark yours MI (capital i), and maybe put your latitude. Probably too much to put your longtitude. I'm thinking that a fine point will work better than a thick one. This will not hurt their wings if you are careful.

I'll mark mine VA 38. These are premigration Monarchs. Just having them marked will let you know that they are still around.

[donnap27]

Great idea!
i'll start tomorrow. Let me know if you see any "MI 42" come your way !
Donna

[Mona Miller]

I'll be looking. I have a pair of close focus binoculars that I'll have to keep in my fanny pack that I take to the garden with me.

My fanny pack contains duck tape (essential for repairs), 5 gallon paint strainers (in an emergency these can be used to house butterflies or caterpillars), survey tape (great for tying the paint strainers), plastic gloves (great for gardening). In the outer pockets, I carry something to cut with.

[donnap27]

Hi Mona
what brand and style of close focus binoculars do you have, or recommend ?
another question: if the monarchs fly from Great Lakes Region to the East (Virginia) ... then do the migrating monarchs from the east (Virginia) fly back west through the Great Lakes Region then south to Mexico ? so many questions
thanks, Donna

[Mona Miller]

No way, they hang around here because I have loads of milkweed. I've tagged them in mid to late September and had tags picked up in Mexico.

It was sad to see the bossy male Monarch today. I wrote VA 38 with the permanent marker, let a few Monarchs go today and the bossy male Monarch was attacking the males.

I ended up getting a pair of Papilo by Pentax from Eagle Optics. They are not bad.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars?query=papilio
I chose the 6.5x21 because I wanted to see a bit further to do a bit of Hawk watching.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/p ... -binocular
They are very affordable $119. I have another pair of Pentax that I ended up paying a bit more for and the Papilo are better. If you can go to a local bird watching store and try out the binoculars, then order them on line. They are cheaper on line.

[dandjtaylor]

Mona

I hear ya' on the bossy males. Lately, I am lucky to have a female make it to 5 or 6 plants before being chased or carried away by one of the three that we have patrolling the grounds. I am tempted to capture them and put them in a tent for a day just to let the females have their freedom!

[Mona Miller]

But, they are also giving her nutrition along with the sperm packet. Plus, apparently a strong set of genes for survival. Average number of times that Monarchs mate is 8 times.