Herbicides Help Milkweed Restoration Projects

[Paul Cherubini]

Many of you have likely heard about the Xerces Society's Milkweed Seed
Increase Project. Xerces works with seed producers like Hedgerow
Farms in Winters, California which grows the milkweed like
a row crop. To keep competing weeds out of their milkweed
fields they use herbicides as you can see in these photos:

[blazing star]

This is a ridiculous thread.

[Paul Cherubini]

[blazing star]

I'm a conservationist. I engage land restoration to native on a 5 acre plot and also assist with public land restoration as a volunteer. I use herbicides, judiciously. They are necessary, unfortunately.

My comment was not geared towards the necessity of herbicides. It's geared to your marketing of the products you keep trying to peddle, as well as the bias presented in your threads. Just look at the thread title you selected. If I wanted to waste my time on you I could present various reasons as to how this is not true.

This thread is ridiculous, I maintain. Yes, Paul - we see your big huge boxes of ROUNDUP. Paul sells ROUNDUP if anyone needs any.

[Mona Miller]

I'm sorry it has been a very long week and if you don't find this funny, you may not have a sense of humor.

But, seriously, Paul Cherubini has a serious issue with misinformation. How much of a kick back do you get from Monsanto Paul?

[Paul Cherubini]

[Mona Miller]

Don't you drive a gas powered vehicle?

Isn't this a bit off topic again? It went from roundup to fuel. Please try to stay on topic.

[Paul Cherubini]

My point is milkweed restoration projects will end up causing pollution just like growing food crops does because both activities require the use of pesticides and farm machinery powered by petroleum products.

[Mona Miller]

You can't see the forest for the trees.

No one that does conservation restoration uses the amount of fuel and weed killer that the farming industry uses or the genetically modified seeds that they use either.

[Paul Cherubini]

You can't see the forest for the trees. No one that does conservation restoration uses the amount of fuel and weed killer that the farming industry uses or the genetically modified seeds that they use either.

But conservationists values and policies have changed over the years to one that now favors greatly increased use of pollution causing pesticides and petroleum powered farm machinery.

Examples:

1) They support efforts to spray non-native weeds and trees nowadays, especially in parks and conservation reserves whereas they didn't 30 years ago. 30 years ago their hatred of pesticides was stronger than their hatred of non-native plants, but not anymore.

2) They support roadside spraying to enhance motorist safety and also help kill non-native weeds and trees whereas they didn't 30 years ago. 30 years ago they accepted the increased hazard of weed choked roadsides.

3) They support growing milkweed and nectar plants via using industrialized farming techniques that require the use of pesticides and petroleum powered farm machinery whereas they didn't 30 years ago.

In other ways too, conservationists nowadays are causing increased consumption of petroleum products and resources; e.g. they are no longer willing to drive vehicles the size and weight (1800 lbs) of Volkswagens; they are no longer willing to live in 1000-1400 square foot homes like they did on Earth Day 1970.

[Mona Miller]

Illogical statements again. Not all conservationists. Not all areas.

But, we do know that this is your business so you are promoting your sales of these products.

I double dare you not to reply to this message. I don't think that will work. You will just keeping posting illogical statements. That's what crocked salesmen do.

[Paul Cherubini]

But, we do know that this is your business so you are promoting your sales of these products.

Conservationists themselves, not industry sales people, are creating the increased demand for more polluting pesticides, fossil fuel guzzling farm machinery, vans and SUV's, and larger homes.

[Mona Miller]

You actually think folks are going to buy this? I sure don't.

[blazing star]

Paul, What the heck is the matter with you today? You're unusually irrational? How do you know how conservationists live? I know that, one time, you posted some illogical link to draw a conclusion about an environmental executive. Once falsities to your post were pointed out, you could not prove your point concerning the link. This is a running problem with you.

Since you only have Monsanto type people in your circle, I know your perspective is limited to those types of people that live as you espouse conservationists live.

It's clear that, once again, you probably viewed your industry biased links to arrive an an ill conclusion. Open your mind, Paul.

[Paul Cherubini]

How do you know how conservationists live?

It's easy to investigate their lifestyles using internet tools. This free site tells you their street address
http://www.zabasearch.com/ This site tells you the size of their homes and when they bought them:
http://www.zillow.com/ Then Google Earth with Streetview shows what kinds of vehicles are parked in their driveways.

[blazing star]

This is priceless. I used the links YOU just provided and took one of your targets - Xerces. I looked up the listed corporate officer and he lives in an area where the median home value is $95,000! Sq. Ft. of homes is around 1,300. This was a result of my very first search. Nice job of providing evidence to prove yourself wrong, again.

Not that your post would have meant anything anyway as you have no knowledge if the conservationist has 3 generations of people living in the same house and if the car parked in the driveway is a visitor's car.

[Paul Cherubini]

This is priceless. I used the links YOU just provided and took one of your targets - Xerces. I looked up the listed corporate officer and he lives in an area where the median home value is $95,000! Sq. Ft. of homes is around 1,300. This was a result of my very first search.

Try again: http://www.zabasearch.com/people/scott- ... -black/or/
Enter the third address into zillow.com

[Mona Miller]

The reason Paul Cherubini has a vendetta against the Xerces Society is because Xerces is against butterfly releases. Paul thinks if he bad mouths them enough that that will do them harm. Most people who know about you Paul think that you are wrong and Xerces is right.

Paul this kind of behavior is considered cyber stalking. I wish there was a law against it. If you were arrested, they would give you life without parole for your years of harassing conservation organizations and Monarch scientists.

[blazing star]

I don't know what you're talking about by "third address". I entered a Xerces Officer's address and found they live in a lower-moderate priced area. I'm sure I can spend all day looking up other Officer's residential practices but what does it matter? Like I said before, no useful information can be derived by looking at one's size of residence as there can be 10 people living there. Do you not understand the concept of number of persons/sq. ft aggregating a lighter footprint?

Besides all of the above, I truly hope that conservationist Officers make loads and loads and loads of money such that those positions draw skilled persons to combat the ills thwarted on us from the corporations, that you support and that support you with your salary, which are driven without ethics based on pure bottom line profit - Monsanto and the chemical and ag companies, namely. If you showed me that all conservationist officers live in mansions, I will do cartwheels. Unfortunately, your "evidence" proves your own point wrong and that you are misinformed.

[blazing star]

I just looked up the President of a conservationist organization and they live in an area of a median priced rural area of $150,000 home values. The horrors!

This thread should be locked. Big waste of time.

[Mona Miller]

Most of the information that Paul Cherubini posts is a waste of time.

Blazing Star let us unsubscribe from this topic and let Cherubini talk with himself. He does that you know.

[blazing star]

Paul is debating with his other self and Paul is losing. Paul, and his other self, see the same information but arrive at different conclusions. Wait, now I am getting confused.

[Paul Cherubini]

Yesturday I was out in the Hedgerow Farms area again and found another commercial milkweed field (fascicularis) where herbicides had been used extensively within the milkweed crop. Also found a speciosa milkweed field where herbicide had recently been used on the speciosa milkweed crop margin:

[blazing star]

I sure hope your "other self" educated them about land restoration and how inane it is to spray herbicides and leave bare ground.

[Paul Cherubini]

I found this flyer Hedgerow Farms produced which says using a broad spectrum herbicide is the most effective way to deal with weeds prior to planting the seedling transplant plugs it sells (e.g. they sell milkweed transplant plugs). Then after planting, Hedgerow says "some pre-emergent herbicides can be used immediately following planting."

[Mona Miller]

So you are assuming that they are following the same protocol for planting Xerces milkweed. I've always been taught not to assume. Assumptions can get you sued, especially if you posted them on the internet.

Also Paul, why do you post only sections of article and partial pieces of paper with red underlines. That doesn't allow people to read the whole article or paper, but that does allow you to promote your agenda.

Paul Cherubini's agenda is to promote pesticides and herbicides and to assassinate the reputations of conservation organizations.

[Paul Cherubini]

So you are assuming that they are following the same protocol for planting Xerces milkweed.

Not assuming because all their milkweed crop fields have evidence of major use of herbicide. Not only within the milkweed crop, but along the margins as you can see in this July 1 vs July 29 photo:

All these photos, taken together, provide indisputable evidence that "Herbicides Help Milkweed Restoration Projects" via killing competing weeds that would otherwise deminish milkweed seed pod production by consuming some of the water, nutrients and sunlight that the milkweed crop needs.

In this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwNaNAGy0wM the owners of a South Dakota based chain of pesticide dealerships explain "When do weeds hurt yields". They also kinda poke fun at conservationists by pointing out to them that if they try growing a desirable weed, such as milkweed, they will end up wanting to spray competing weeds that would otherwise interfere with the growth of the milkweed crop! And my many photos in this thread have proved they are right!

[Paul Cherubini]

So you are assuming that they are following the same protocol for planting Xerces milkweed. I've always been taught not to assume. Assumptions can get you sued

In Xerces's own brochure photos there is evidence of broadcast applications of herbicide to fields planted in milkweed. Like this asperula milkweed field in Texas (photo credit Briana Borders with the Xerces Society):

[blazing star]

Paul,

Post the link from where you got that brochure. Otherwise, we will deduce that you imprinted the words "herbicide" all over that picture. This is a safe assumption since each of your posts never contains any factual information. You always simply post an opinion you inferred from something else. I looked on the Xerces website and they have no such brochure, as you site in your post. Link?

Also, I now know why you're attacking them. They're against siting damage to bees from pesticides. That must make you angry, considering that sales of pesticide affects your livelihood. I'm going to donate to them now. Thanks information on Xerces!

[Paul Cherubini]

Paul, Post the link from where you got that brochure. Otherwise, we will deduce that you imprinted the words "herbicide" all over that picture.

Yes, I imprinted the words "herbicide" to the Xerces photo above to point out where the herbicide is used (between the rows of milkweed to keep unwanted weeds from crowding out the slow growing milkweed seedlings). The original Xerces photo is here on page 9: http://www.monarchlab.org/mn2012/Admin/upload/15.pdf

[blazing star]

Ok. Just making sure you're still guessing when you post information that you espouse is factual. I can start ignoring this thread again since you still have nothing of truthful value to post.

Also, just to tie this thread with another thread, it should be pointed out that Paul attacks conservation organizations that take issue against pesticides. Paul sells pesticides.

Nothing new here, from Paul, for any new onlookers.

[Paul Cherubini]

Ok. Just making sure you're still guessing when you post information that you espouse is factual.

I'm not guessing about whether or not herbicides are used in Milkweed Restoration Projects. Yesturday I witnessed the spraying in action (applicator wearing a backpack sprayer, plus protective white coveralls and rubber gloves) in a speciosa milkweed crop field (same field as shown in the first photo of this thread):